Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: The first scroll

  1. #1
    Registered User F5G WIZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Georgetown Indiana, Across the creek from Louisville KY.
    Posts
    1,385

    Default

    Was wonderin' on what instrument was the first scroll introduced. I know it was pre-F5. Any information?
    Poe#5, Neely#72, Kentucky KM 150 (The Bagram Beater)
    http://WWW.myspace.com/easternskybluegrass
    http://www.myspace.com/darrintissandier

  2. #2
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Outer Spiral Arm, of Galaxy, NW Oregon.
    Posts
    16,130

    Default

    On Ferns, the green ones in the forest , when they sprout from the ground.
    naturally .. aka 'fiddleheads'...

    I see below, spiral galaxy is the winner for oldest. [not a creationist]




    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

  3. #3
    Registered User F5G WIZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Georgetown Indiana, Across the creek from Louisville KY.
    Posts
    1,385

    Default

    Ha HA good to hear from another insomniac! Thanks. Not quite what I was lookin for though.
    Poe#5, Neely#72, Kentucky KM 150 (The Bagram Beater)
    http://WWW.myspace.com/easternskybluegrass
    http://www.myspace.com/darrintissandier

  4. #4

    Default

    Pretty sure it was the early Gibson F2's that set the standard for scrolls.
    Gibson A9
    Eastman 804D two point, blonde

    Nothing is fool proof for a talented fool

  5. #5
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1996
    Location
    Norfolk, England
    Posts
    5,795

    Default

    Orville put them on instruments he hand-built, but they go back quite a bit further than that. Violin peghead scrolls for example.. from there you'd probably look back to greek architecture and beyond as inspiration
    The Mandolin Archive
    my CDs
    "The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead"

  6. #6
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    14,761

    Default

    I suspect "scrolls" on instruments predate the violin, and perhaps first showed up on lyres or something similar.(?)
    This could be the inspiration for a pretty big research project...for someone of an accademic persuasion.

    (Dan, I'm trying to remember my college art history. Did the Greeks use scrolls in archetecture, or did the Romans start that? I believe the scroll we see today is ionic.)

  7. #7

    Default

    The scroll shape is interesting. It seems to hit on a subconscience universal asthetic that can be seen in many cultures going way back. It is also a familiar shape in both the plant and animal kingdom. Many visual interpretations of fractal sets also have re-occuring scroll shapes, notably the Mandelbrot set. It seems to "strike a chord" with many people but in a rather mysterious or inexplicable way.

  8. #8
    _________________ grandmainger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan
    Posts
    1,673

    Default

    The first one?




  9. #9

    Default

    Even earlier... This one has a bit of a Monteleone shape to it...



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Galaxy_I__Small_.jpg 
Views:	78 
Size:	20.8 KB 
ID:	18182  

  10. #10

    Default

    Here is an image produced as a result visualizing a fractal set.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Fractal_scrolls.jpg 
Views:	101 
Size:	69.2 KB 
ID:	18183  

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    4,208

    Default

    This is from the '73 book by Jullius Bellson called "The Gibson Story".
    This is a mandolin built by Orville before the turn of the century and before there was a Gibson company.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	gibson.jpg 
Views:	97 
Size:	10.1 KB 
ID:	18184  

  12. #12
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    27,550

    Default

    The scrolls that were on concert zithers were pretty close to the ones that Orville adapted. He even built one himself (not the one pictured).


    Jim
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    2018 Campanella A-5 -- 2007 Brentrup A4C -- 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin -- Huss & Dalton DS -- 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead -- '83 Flatiron A5-2 -- 1939 Gibson L-00 -- 1936 Epiphone Deluxe -- 1928 Gibson L-5 -- ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo -- ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo -- ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo -- National RM-1

  13. #13
    Registered User F5G WIZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Georgetown Indiana, Across the creek from Louisville KY.
    Posts
    1,385

    Default

    Wow! Hate to have to buy a set of strings for that! Wouldn't be much fun to tune up for a jam either. Not much room to clamp on the intellitouch.
    Poe#5, Neely#72, Kentucky KM 150 (The Bagram Beater)
    http://WWW.myspace.com/easternskybluegrass
    http://www.myspace.com/darrintissandier

  14. #14
    Registered User F5G WIZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Georgetown Indiana, Across the creek from Louisville KY.
    Posts
    1,385

    Default

    I'm wondering if Mr. Gibson originally thought the scroll would have some effect on tone or if it was just cosmetic from the start.
    Poe#5, Neely#72, Kentucky KM 150 (The Bagram Beater)
    http://WWW.myspace.com/easternskybluegrass
    http://www.myspace.com/darrintissandier

  15. #15

    Default

    Scroll envy has been around since at least the neolithic era...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MckeeSpringsPetro.jpg 
Views:	80 
Size:	141.2 KB 
ID:	18185  

  16. #16
    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Santa Cruz, California
    Posts
    6,286

    Default



    The graphic I've used on my business card and stationery since 1968 or so began with an image from a European music catalog dating to the 1880s:



    The extra stuff was added later by Salvador Dali, which suited me just fine. It was from a folio called "A Suite of Erotic Prints!" But the scroll in this instrument, from Spain, predated Orville by a bit. You can surely tell what was original and what wasn't. The guitar was presented in that catalog on the stand.
    .
    ph

    º º º º º º º º º º º º º º º
    Paul Hostetter, luthier
    Santa Cruz, California
    www.lutherie.net

  17. #17
    Registered User F5G WIZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Georgetown Indiana, Across the creek from Louisville KY.
    Posts
    1,385

    Default

    Ya think Thile could play that?
    Poe#5, Neely#72, Kentucky KM 150 (The Bagram Beater)
    http://WWW.myspace.com/easternskybluegrass
    http://www.myspace.com/darrintissandier

  18. #18

    Default

    Harpguitars.net dates this one at 1810... The scrolls aren't attached to the body though... Source for photo.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pons_1810_s_bmfa.jpg 
Views:	74 
Size:	10.1 KB 
ID:	18186  

  19. #19

    Default

    This one is dated 1813. Same site: source.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Apollo_Lyre_v_a_miner.jpg 
Views:	71 
Size:	18.5 KB 
ID:	18187  

  20. #20

    Default

    Scrolled heads on viols, citterns, violins, etc. are pretty old. Roger Blumberg's Thecipher.com has a pretty impressive collection of medieval and renaissance iconography. I thought I could link to an easy page, but I think the images are buried and some not linked to the outside world. To start, try this.

  21. #21

    Default

    ...If you're wondering explicitly about lumping a scroll onto the soundbox of an archtop mandolin, that whole tradition is a knock off of Orville Gibson's bizarre sense of aesthetic.

  22. #22
    Moderator JEStanek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Pottstown, Pennsylvania, United States
    Posts
    13,937
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Paul, I love that Dali!

    Jamie
    There are two things to aim at in life: first, to get what you want; and, after that, to enjoy it. Only the wisest of mankind achieve the second. Logan Pearsall Smith, 1865 - 1946

    + Give Blood, Save a Life +

  23. #23
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    14,761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by (Eugene @ Sep. 04 2006, 14:41)
    ...a knock off of Orville Gibson's bizarre sense of aesthetic.
    ...

  24. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    205

    Default

    In creating his "florentine" design, Orville certainly had a violin in mind. But the scrolls and pearl decoration are pure reflections of the art nouveau movement at the turn-of-the-20th century. Orville had a great all-around design sense. Of course, others at Gibson refined his designs, but Orville set the standard. Too bad he didn't live long enough to combine efforts with Lloyd Loar. Imagine the beautiful red, pumpkin, and blacktop F-5s that might have been produced in the 1920s! Instead, most Gibson mandolins remain some variation of Loar's "Cremona brown," while the quintessential "Gibson colors" find their modern expression on acoustic and electric guitars. Pretty ironic!

    Bob
    Robert H. Sayers

  25. #25
    Registered User F5G WIZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Georgetown Indiana, Across the creek from Louisville KY.
    Posts
    1,385

    Default

    Great information guys, I was mainly wondering about the scroll on the sound box. Obviously it makes no difference in the tone of a mandolin, some may argue that point, seems like a lot of work for looks only. But it certainly sells well I think. Wonder if Monroe had played an "A" instead of an "F" his entire career if they would be as popular as they are now.
    Poe#5, Neely#72, Kentucky KM 150 (The Bagram Beater)
    http://WWW.myspace.com/easternskybluegrass
    http://www.myspace.com/darrintissandier

Similar Threads

  1. Scroll?
    By banjobenjamen in forum Builders and Repair
    Replies: 5
    Last: Aug-15-2008, 6:59am
  2. Look ma, no scroll
    By Jerry Byers in forum Videos, Pictures & Sound Files
    Replies: 21
    Last: Dec-01-2007, 12:24am
  3. scroll
    By jim simpson in forum Videos, Pictures & Sound Files
    Replies: 66
    Last: Aug-21-2006, 9:06pm
  4. First Scroll
    By Lee in forum Videos, Pictures & Sound Files
    Replies: 10
    Last: Nov-22-2004, 5:20pm
  5. Scroll ?
    By Merc in forum Builders and Repair
    Replies: 9
    Last: Nov-09-2004, 10:23pm

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •