Mandolin, Guitar, & Bass for Doug Rawling & The Caraganas
www.dougrawling.com
2008 Kentucky KM-1000
2014 Martin D-28 Authentic 1937
1964 Gibson LG-0
2022 Sigma SDR-45VS
Here's an interesting xray image of a 24' H5 with virzi.
Yeah I would think the position of the Virzi would have a noticeable impact on tone. Do all Virzis (guitars, mandolins, etc.) have the positioning pins?
I believe yes, Gibson used pins in many other places on instruments as well and mandolin x rays show them too (or at least void hole once the Virzi is removed). And also notches in the tonebars where the double foot fits (this picture is taken frm an angle so the notches are not visible).
Adrian
Adrian
Virzi was indeed there and removed by Monteleone in the 80's I believe.... Owner at the time made the decision and both he and John M, were really happy with the operation
What is the current thinking about how best to perform a Virziectomy? (NOT the wisdom of it - we can save that for its own thread.) But I would think that a back-off removal would be warranted these days, given the value of the instruments, so as to ensure no lasting damage to top or tone bars. Or perhaps the 'endoscopic surgery' approach has become more sophisticated since the days of 'hammer and screw driver through the end pin hole'!
I think endoscopic surgery would still be least invasive method but given the value these days, more sofisticated tools would be used. You can apply some water to the feet of the Virzi (through f holes with syringe or pipette with long tube) to soften the glue for easier removal. You can after that completely remove the feet from the disc and perhaps pull the disc out undamaged.
But clothes hanger is much faster and cheaper :-)
Adrian
Now I am curious if the Virzi was 'centered' on the centerline, or centered between the tone bars?
Love those images!
Darryl G. Wolfe, The F5 Journal
www.f5journal.com
I recently learned that Bran Dillard, owner of Picker’s Supply, is selling #73726 July 9, ‘23. I had the opportunity to study this F-5 years ago. This mandolin greatly influenced my mandolin building.
Some more detailed photos.
I know of this mando and #73747, 7/9/23 that have one-piece backs. There may be another one out there. A rare feature amongst Loars.
See post #1065 here: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...the-Day/page43
..... f5joe
'02 Gibson master model #70327 02-01-02
'25 Gibson A-4 Snakehead #82626
'06 Hicks #1 and #2 F-5 still not done
Gibson F-5 Master Model Registry
Personally if your Loar F-5 has a Virzi, I wouldn't smash it out? I know I'm leaving mine in my Dec. 1st 24 as long as I'm its protector. We all know Lloyd was a Virzi advocate and I love what they do, sure you don't get the power but you still get enough, and a nice elegant voice that I really think Loar was going for in the later 24's, why else would they be installed after the fact/after they were built then the backs cut off then Virzi's were installed?
It also seems like if you remove one then they aren't as original and would hurt value, sure mandolin prices have tanked a bit, well the vintage ones I've noticed really went down and a tough sale nowadays so original may be best?
I agree, if it’s in there, leave it in. It was installed for a reason, albeit debatable but, at some point in time there was a real perceived advantage.
Besides, the cool factor is pretty high in my opinion.
Timothy F. Lewis
"If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett
I think that the long debate over the Virzi is settled in favor of: either course is fine if it works for the owner.
Plenty of pro players are going to remove, seeking the tone they want to hear - and others will seek out a Virzi instrument. Most collectors will opt for originality over experimentation.
I liked the tones I got out of the Virzi-fied one I played but I have liked the others too.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
If you ever get the chance to AB two Loars with and without Virzi, don’t pass up the opportunity.
That goes for Mandolas as well, although I think there was only one Mandola built without a Virzi installed. Presumably there are mandolas out there that hav had them ripped out.
John D
There was a mention of the Virzi "pins" a little earlier. They were very tiny brads that were driven into each foot, then nipped off to leave maybe a sixteenth of an inch protruding. (Couldn't be much more because the top is fairly thin.) In this photo you can see the brad that remains attached to the top after the Virzi foot was removed. There is the point of the nail sticking up into the air, which had been pounded into the foot. The top at this point can't be much thicker than 1/8 inch, so I can't imagine this brad actually "attached" the Virzi. Perhaps it was to help keep it in position. But there are the notches in the tone bars to do that. I can't begin to understand why they notched the tone bars. It seems completely unnecessary. And the brads seem a bit unnecessary and risky also. But, that's the way they did it folks.
Steve
Looks wonderful, Bill. Congrats again.
Thanks again Hendrik, I was going to post a video of her but its in my computer and I guess I'll have to transfer to you-tube so its compatible with the video uplink above, that's how I did one before. Its a really neat looking Loar as well with both top and back having mismatched wood.
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