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Thread: Loar Picture of the Day

  1. #1126
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    I’m not so sure that misma
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  2. #1127

    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    I’m not so sure that misma
    Huh?
    Play it like you mean it.

  3. #1128
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Maybe he's saying my wood is not mismatched in my Loar photos above, my Dec. 1st 24? Trust me in hands sure is.

  4. #1129
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Sorry, fumble fingered response I think.
    What I meant to say is that they are not so much “mismatched” as much as “casually imperfect” there are several examples of that.
    I seem to remember something about one having a top with two different species (one side Sitka the other red(?)) or something like that. It was done for a reason but, there are far more informed folks who will either confirm or dispel that.
    No matter what they are all pretty darned cool! Which is why they are being interpreted so well by so many fine makers still today!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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  6. #1130
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Those backs were likely cut from the same board something like 6" wide 3/4" thick twice as long as mandolin cur in half and glue together. If the figure is consistent along the board some folks may think it is matched (which it technically is..., though not BOOK-matched).
    On bookmatched the waves are almost perfectly mirrored across centerline.
    BTW, does it appear to have lacquer overspray?
    Adrian

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  8. #1131
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Thanks Adrian, that makes sense on the wood as its not bookmatched, A few Loar guys checked it out in hand and didn't think so on the lacquer overspray, they just said its very clean and hardly played. but I wonder as if it didn't leave or get shipped out supposedly in 1928 from the shop if it was shot to spruce it up? I was told it was polished while for sale at Gruhn's and I don't believe George would've left that out in his description if it was lacquer overspray while he had it for a time from the seller? Either way it doesn't matter to me as I'm very happy with it. I know it isn't as worn like you see on some so maybe is there a definitive way to tell? I guess when I haul her around to some guys like Darryl W. Tony W. David H. etc....They could check it out in hand maybe at the banjothon/Loarfest if I can get away and go?

    Oh I forgot to say there is nothing on any of the inside labels to suggest overspray like I've seen on some that have had it done-Labels are clean!
    Last edited by William Smith; Sep-09-2019 at 5:34am.

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  10. #1132
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Thanks Adrian, that was exactly what I meant, though I didn’t express myself correctly!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  11. #1133
    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by HoGo View Post
    Those backs were likely cut from the same board something like 6" wide 3/4" thick twice as long as mandolin cur in half and glue together. If the figure is consistent along the board some folks may think it is matched (which it technically is..., though not BOOK-matched).
    On bookmatched the waves are almost perfectly mirrored across centerline.
    BTW, does it appear to have lacquer overspray?
    Charlie Derrington would call this "slip-matched", if I'm not mistaken. The matter actually appears somewhere earlier in this thread.

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  13. #1134
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by HoGo View Post
    BTW, does it appear to have lacquer overspray?
    I fully believe that Gibson started overspraying all instruments that left the factory at some point around early 1925. I believe this happened in conjunction with the change to a soft lacquer finish at the same time. This would include instruments of the 80000 serial and beyond, PLUS anything in stock and unsold and previously varnished. Most H5 mandolas from March 24 are oversprayed. I've several Feb 24 F5's this way. Additionally, I believe Monroe's 73987 was oversprayed. Every Loar mandolin with gold hardware that I have seen is oversprayed.
    Darryl G. Wolfe, The F5 Journal
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  15. #1135
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Next ?, Would it be worth it to get rid of the factory overspray or leave alone. I'm sure it could be done with some serious patience. But would that compromise or add to the value as it would most likely sound better? Curiosity is upon me-OH NO

    Has anyone done this to their Loar? I know in the archives my Uncles Feb 18th 1924 #75305 looks real shinny, like mine now but since the 90's when I became acquainted with his Loar, it has the dullish finish that a well worn Varnished Loar has so I wonder if he did something to the finish? I will ask.

  16. #1136
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    I recommend no. It's original to the mandolin. Removal was tried on an unsigned currently for sale. End result is "finish has been messed with"
    Darryl G. Wolfe, The F5 Journal
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  18. #1137
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Thanks Darryl, It was just a thought but like you said its original and wouldn't want a bad result from an attempt at doing it! Now that you said the later Loars and such that may have stuck around the factory I've looked in the archives and there are a lot of F-5's that have the similar finish traits as mine-some earlier than the 1924's It's possible that they did get spruced up in 25-28 or so from the factory but they did a great job as on mine and others there is no overspray on the inside labels like some Loars have, defiantly the 5's from the 20's that got a re-furbish in the 30's with a new pearl block board etc. On them one can see the overspray on the labels. So maybe your theory is correct that some that laid around in the white didn't get finished till later? But what about the Labels, were they in before or after the finish was complete? All very interesting to me anyway.

  19. #1138

    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by William Smith View Post
    Next ?, Would it be worth it to get rid of the factory overspray or leave alone. I'm sure it could be done with some serious patience. ...
    Oh come on... you weren't really seriously thinking of having a luthier try and remove a layer of the finish on your very fine looking mandolin, were you? This is just the mental wanderings caused by internet forums, I suspect. (I could be wrong...) I mean the downside is so great, and the upside so... hypothetical...
    BradKlein
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    Twangbox« Videos

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  21. #1139
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Hey brother my mind is always working or should I say wandering-sometimes not the best ideas I have

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  23. #1140
    Registered User JAK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    LoarFest? Is there another one (years ago in California there was one) coming up?
    John A. Karsemeyer

  24. #1141
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Well every year they have a Banjothon in TN, and a load of Loars show up also, Last year there was over 20 and then more post Loar F-5's up thru the early 40's F-5's also a load of pre-war Martin's and such.

    I think its one of those "you have to be invited or have the golden ticket instrument to get in?"

  25. #1142
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by William Smith View Post
    Well every year they have a Banjothon in TN, and a load of Loars show up also, Last year there was over 20 and then more post Loar F-5's up thru the early 40's F-5's also a load of pre-war Martin's and such.

    I think its one of those "you have to be invited or have the golden ticket instrument to get in?"
    Well, Bill, that's a bit schmaltzy, I run the Loar Fest portion of the Banjothon event. The entire event is not advertised and is by word of mouth for numerous reasons which we will not discuss. It is non-profit, by donation only and there are no "ticket sales". Operative word there is TICKET.

    Anyone "known in the community" is welcome to come by, anyone with the golden ticket instrument is invited to display it, but must contact me. It's that simple.

    It is an extension of an informal gathering of people with the same interests that started 20 or more years ago, a "yearly homecoming" as such. Vintage F5 mandolins have always been a part of it by default, but I was asked to grow that part 4-5 years ago. We have had 20-25 ever since, in additional to the 100's of flathead banjos
    Darryl G. Wolfe, The F5 Journal
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  27. #1143
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Thanks Darryl for the clarification, I thought I said of the representation of the event well but really not sure of the word "schmaltzy"-is that Yiddish? If I said anything wrong I'm sorry as I've never been just what I've been told about the event from family members that attend and have been trying to get me to go the last few years.
    I for sure want to be able to go when the time comes, I should be able to as long as I know way in advance so I can get my ducks/mandolins in a row

    This will be a spectacular event and to give one an idea there are some video's posted on you tube that show a lot of past instruments and how they are displayed, loads of great ole' banjos/guitars and Loars also post Loar F-5's up through the early 1940's F-5's-at least the video I seen.
    Are rare oddball Gibson mandolins also allowed to be shown like pre-war F-7's, F-12's etc..

  28. #1144
    Formerly F5JOURNL Darryl Wolfe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    I meant no harm. I just meant to clarify that it's not some secret handshake society of Shieks

    Oddball stuff needs to be one offs. We do usually have an F4 or F7 although they don't meet the criteria. As long as it add some "comparison factor" to the vintage F5's its ok. We just need a few though

    For example, I'll bring my F4 in the rectangle case for a direct comparison of what the F5 accomplished. But we only need one, unless its the one missing the point or a Cremona brown one. An F7 or F12 is fine. Especially the 12 since even I have seen only 1.
    Darryl G. Wolfe, The F5 Journal
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  30. #1145
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    I know this is a Loar thread but I don't want to overlook the early Fern F-5's as I believe many of the first ones have Loar F-5 attributes! Such as left over parts, be it the Fern peg head inlays, hardware, even the peg head grained binding? Even perhaps the wood parts, maybe bodies? We know Gibson used old F-4 necks on their 30's rare mandolins such as the F-7, and the few F-10's/F-12's. I see that Jimmy Gaudreau's old Fern with a later serial# than mine from the same batch, serial# 84270 with an FON# 9140, had a 3 piece neck, now to me that says a 1922 or the earliest of 23 Loar F-5 necks correct? I don't believe any other Fern has a 3 piece neck? So it was a factory so its easy to fathom that parts were laying around, we know after Loar left there still was signed Loar mandolins in stock on the shelves but what about the Ferns? We know that Gibson went to the Fern instead of flowerpot and gold hardware so I think some people wanted the new "Fern" F-5's instead of the Loar flowerpot F-5's, some people say that why would Gibson make and sell Ferns in 1925-1926 if they still had Loars and Unsigned Loars to get rid of? Well I believe they did make/throw some together as some people may have wanted the new Ferns?

    One can also look at the early Ferns and see the different carving and finish correct, the earlier Ferns using my "I call it a 26" serial # 83793 with the same FON#9140 as the later F-5's from the same batch-later serial#'s than mine such as Bobby Osborne's, Dean Webb, Earl Taylor, Jimmy Gaudreau, Now there is an F-5 serial# 83790 in the archive with no FON# listed but it is possibly the same FON# as mine and I suspect there may be serial# 83791 and # 83792 that are F-5's out there in the wind with the same FON# I can't prove it unless they turn up? But one thing I'm getting at is my Fern # 83793 has a very thin Lacquer finish, later in the same batch the finish gets heavier and more wavy on the backs mostly, some tops and then in 1929ish they used a different harder/thicker Lacquer finish that became standard on their instruments and is what you see in 29 onward thru the 30's.
    I find all this very interesting and wonder what some of you experts on Loars and such think of my opinions? I think they hold merit and make perfect sense? Its all quite possible but very little to zero info survives dealing with this that I know of? There are books/shipping ledgers and such that exist from the 30's and would personally love to study them! Another strange thing is that some of the early 30's Ferns had to have the old Fern overlays sitting around as if Gibson still had the "Loar style tuning machines-arrowhead worm under gear tuners the spacing would've been fine and you wouldn't see the new bump end worm over gear tuners drilled thru parts of the Fern leaves! Some are properly positioned with the bump end worm over gear tuners but not too many?

    So I would love to hear others opinions on these mandolin geek theories I have? I believe it all makes perfect sense and when evaluating any of these old F-5 Ferns I believe each one has to be looked at with all these attributes on a case by case basis to determine the correct year! Like all the Unsigned Loars should have the same FON# as all the signed December 1st 1924 Lloyd Loars #11985 as one Dec.1st 24 Loar is missing the labels-or they're there but fell out revealing the FON# 11985.

    Yes lets please hear some thoughts on these theories I have, I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks about this?

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  32. #1146
    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    Sounds like you got the "golden ticket" to get past the door into the world of Banjothon/LoarFest. I'd say most of your questions can be answered there by the several experts that usually are there. Seeing something new for the first time will feed the lust for more. It's a long one day event.

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  34. #1147
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar Picture of the Day

    So Tom I best eat my Wheaties and get good and coffee upped!

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