Loar Picture of the Day

[danb]

Here are photos, again from Stan at Elderly Instruments. This is Gibson F5 #73984, signed July 9, 1923 by Lloyd Loar. Looks like a very nice example, I'm not aware of a sidebound so close to Monroe's coming up for sale recently.

[danb]

next set..

[danb]

last set. (more at the elderly link above)

[danb]

There's not a lot to comment on in terms of differences here. Replaced handle on case, and Stan notes one tuner button replaced!

[sgarrity]

WOW, what a find!

[Mark Seale]

Here are photos, again from Stan at Elderly Instruments. This is Gibson F5 #73984, signed July 9, 1923 by Lloyd Loar. Looks like a very nice example, I'm not aware of a sidebound so close to Monroe's coming up for sale recently.

Aesthetically, the sidebound look is my favorite. Its just such a good clean line accenting the top.

[tree]

Aaaiiieeee!!!

I was in Elderly's late Friday afternoon, but was unaware they had this mandolin. I went in to drool over (not on) the 1927 Fern, and pick it just a bit. For educational purposes, of course (since I will likely never actually own a mandolin of this value).

Dang, I hate it when I miss an opportunity like that. Michigan is a long way from South Carolina.

[Darryl Wolfe]

The pickguard is a tad odd for mid '23. The angle of the top mitre, single layer of tortoise and the binding with white inner line generally did not show up until Feb 24

[Darryl Wolfe]

Pickguards for 22 and 23 Loars were single layer of 0.070 reinforced with another 0.070 layer indented in. Loars were the first Gibson instruments with bound pickguards and the sanding and polishing rendered them too thin for single layer guards. The first one 70281 is single layer 0.070 none of the others are. Gibson apparently ordered 0.100 plastic to correct this and all Loars February 18, 1924 and later have the single layer guard. Here is a proper 1923 guard with the shrink lines from the layer underneath and the "flat" tip that '23 generally have. The double layer guards are very dark

[Glassweb]

amazing side maple on some of those July 9th mandos... like yours D!

[Bill Halsey]

Good spot, Darryl. This fingerrest is single thickness, 0.095" avg. The b/w offsets are 0.020" each. Here are a few detail pix:

[f5loar]

For what it's worth , Monroe's July 9 Loar had the exact same pickguard as this recent find. So it can't be too odd to find one with this style guard.

[Darryl Wolfe]

For what it's worth , Monroe's July 9 Loar had the exact same pickguard as this recent find. So it can't be too odd to find one with this style guard.

Not fully correct. Monroes had a white celluloid bound guard of the type that came even later in 1925 (along with 1925 era lacquer overspray and gold parts) The guard part is fact, the gold parts are my opinion based on the tailpiece bottom being gold plated

[Darryl Wolfe]

I encourage all Loar and Gibson affecionatos to fully read this book by Walter Carter. I have owned the book since it came out in the early 90's, however there were numerous chapters that I had only sped read or "I'm just looking at the pictures Mom"

Of particular interest are the numerous tales of "Board Room Wars" along with excerpts from minutes of meetings and such. We on this thread have discussed many things about Gibson and the Loar era, but, we have not fully explored the meaning of some of the facts presented in this book.

I will expand on this later as I assimilate my thoughts but here are a few pointers that come to mind:

Board meetings appear to be held on Monday about once a month or there abouts - they seem to coincide with many of the dates Loars were signed on.

L. A. Williams, a Loar associate left Gibson in a furor at the end of '23. Others left before the end of '24, with Loar essentially being the last of the old regime. Loar was more involved with the company than thought, he signed paycheck and did a number of things that imply board member/stockholder

Harry Ferry entered the equation in later '23 and turned the company around to make a profit in '24

Some of his goals were to a) cut the number of models and to B) change from teacher/agent agreements to Music store/dealership agreements.

The cut in production experienced in 1925 was so great that it could not have been from a shift in interest from mandolins to guitars and banjos and the economy simply was not that up and down. Production dipped 60-70%, immediately meaning that they overbuilt and spent the next several years selling 1924 era new instruments. They were building 4-5000 instuments a year and then built about 1200-1400 for the new 3-4 years. Impossible. This is why 1925 instruments may not even be 1925's at this juncture. We note how so many things changed immediately, but this may not now be true. I believe they spent several years finishing instrument started in 1923 and early 24 on an as needed as sold basis (which was one of Harry Ferry's initiatives also)

Some of this seems to explain how Eugene Claycomb special ordered a "red" F5 in mid 1926 and received a red '24 Fern Loar.

More to come

[danb]

I see where you are heading with this Darryl- quite fascinating. It looks like most of the early loars were promotional ones sent to leading players, and now many of the later ones were likely hold-overs. The evidence from the snakeheads such as your A4 seem to point this way too!

Shifting gears a bit, here's 75319 from skinner, coming up soon for auction. Astoundingly it's a Gilchrist refinish. Looking at just how right he got that, all I can say is "job well done Steve". That's simply astoundingly good finish work

[Glassweb]

very interesting stuff guys... great work! perhaps this explains why my Dec. 1 #79719 has the atypical tuners... "business as unusual" at Gibson...
regarding Steve's refinish on the Loar... well, what can you say... all the best will tell you he is the best - sho' nuff'!

hey, i just looked this one up on The Archive and it says "block inlays, refinished in the 1950's and then again by Gil"... please help, i'm confused! by the way... a GREAT looking L&H mandola at this same auction...

[Ken Waltham]

75319 was my F5. I bought it after I had bought the sidebound July 9 from mando Bros. It was a block inlay 1950's fingerboard and 50's refinish at the time. All parts and case were original, so, having sent the July 9 to Oz for Steve to work on, I decided to send this one as well. At the time, Steve had two original Feb 18's there, so, he had a good colour match to work from.
It is easily the best Gilchrist refinish on a Loar that I have seen to date.
The day it arrived, he called me, and said there was a koala bear sitting on the box, on his front porch.

Ken

[Glassweb]

great story Ken! "Loar mandolin blessed by Koala Bear berry, berry good!"

seems like a good opportunity for someone to pick up a nice Loar at a bargain basement price... so to speak...

[Keith Erickson]

I'm just amazed to see how well this looks after 86 years.

It's a great find and a great story to boot.

Thank you for sharing Dan

Cheers

[f5loar]

Another "up to date" repair at Gibson with a Loar getting a 50's block fingerboard and 50's style refinish. It's like the owners of these Loars had no control over Gibson refinishing or replacing unneccesary parts. There have been several Loars found with these type repairs usually in the 40's and 50's. The mystery is how did Monroe's Loar escape the same 50's repair treatment? Or did it?

[Darryl Wolfe]

Glassweb, yes, I thought about your tuners as I made that post. Much of this fits

[BradKlein]

Shifting gears a bit, here's 75319 from skinner, coming up soon for auction. Astoundingly it's a Gilchrist refinish.

Spring of '07, I had a chance to play a Gilchrist refinished Loar at Larry Wexer's. Signed 13 June 1923.

Larry had two Loars at the time, and both sounded very fine, but quite different. His 31 March '24 had original finish and a Virzi.

Overall, I thought that the '23 was an instrument that would make most players very happy, and at well under $100K, I suppose that it might be considered 'a good deal'.

[CharlieKnuth]

I have played the Loar that is up for auction at Skinner's. Wonderful instrument. I am very, very surprised that the estimate worth on this is $70,000 - $90,000. If that is all, I could mortgage my house and then resell the Loar for a huge profit.

[Darryl Wolfe]

I have played the Loar that is up for auction at Skinner's. Wonderful instrument. I am very, very surprised that the estimate worth on this is $70,000 - $90,000. If that is all, I could mortgage my house and then resell the Loar for a huge profit.

Believe it or not, things have changed enough that the Skinner estimate is actually high. I have a refinished Loar that I would love to see leave for $70K and there are no added commissions.

[BradKlein]

Those of us who don't own, or buy and sell very high end instruments sometimes get the idea that most Loars are pristine instruments commanding $200K.

I've played a re-topped Loar as well as the refinished '23 I mentioned above and a refinished Fern. Wonderful instruments. In some ways they occupy an uncomfortable middle ground. Very valuable, but not 'investment' quality. However with a good match between player and instrument I can imagine any of those three being plenty of mandolin for a lifetime of picking.