Anyone Ever Play an Eastman?

I played an Eastman at Namm also. It was O.k but I thought the Micheal Kelly's actually sounded better IMHO.

As far as serious competion for the $1000 range?? I don't think it could stand up to the Gibson A-9

[Brian Ray]

I only buy mandos built by human beings. I prefer for my money to stay here on Earth.

Yes... even you Dale.

It's kinda funny, but I hear constantly from players who aren't taken seriously because they have an A. I can just imagine the remarks if you showed up at a festival with an Eastman mando. Most of us can't tell one fiddle from another without looking at the label so fiddle players can get away with it easier than mando players.........

Yeah I know, it shouldn't happen but you know dang well it does!

[BenE]

I only buy mandos built by human beings. I prefer for my money to stay here on Earth.

Yes... even you Dale.

You know how we know there isn't life on other planets?

We would have already sent them foreign aid!

The truth is in all the years of mando history that has come in gone the only thing in the Asian Market that has ever made it big was Kentucky with the SUMI Km-1500 and the Dawg mandolin. Those were because they were hand built by Sumi all the rest that has came out from that area have been junk to just ok mandolins. What motivates mandolin making in Asia is nothing more than trying to make a big proffit on copying the look of mando's made over here. There are not motivated by ART or pure love like our luthiers over here.

Now when Sam Bush and Mike Compton start playing Chineese mandolins I might change my mind but I don't think it is going to happen anytime soon in our lifetime!

I am not trying to bash anybody. I am just trying to get people to open their eyes and ears. They are ok for beginners but I doubt any serious musician would opt to depend on one of them for a living.

[WaywardFiddler]

It's kinda funny, but I hear constantly from players who aren't taken seriously because they have an A.

They oughta quit hangin' out with people who can't hear. Seems to me we should worry more about who we play with and less about the shape of the instrument. The best way to improve at *anything* is to hang out with supportive folks who are good at it.

I agree Wayward.......

[John Flynn]

It's kinda funny, but I hear constantly from players who aren't taken seriously because they have an A. I can just imagine the remarks if you showed up at a festival with an Eastman mando.

Dale, I hear you. I think that might be true if people at festivals actually knew all the details. My guess is that less than half the mando players at an event might be well enough informed to know the difference and actually care. I doubt that people who play the other instruments would.

Eastmans look like any other Gibson clones and they are an American company with an American name. What is more, the ones I played didn't even have the Eastman name on the headstock. They could have been from a private builder for all anyone knew.

Sad to say, what I have I have seen more bad reactions to at public events are Rigels. I can only imagine Phoenix's and Breedloves might draw the same bad reactions. People who are intolerant snub anything they percieve as different. It doesn't matter where it came from.

Personally, I will play my Rigel and my Parsons with pride. But if I decide an Eastman A-4 is what I want and folks don't like it, they can kiss my oval hole.

"What is more, the ones I played didn't even have the Eastman name on the headstock."

Probably a wise move.

As for the rest of the post....well put! # #LMAO !! #


Big Joe, what's your take on this?

[jom]

I understand and practice the philosophy of buying American products. But
Maverick, you are getting close to suggesting that the Eastman company is
"nothing more than trying to make a big proffit on copying the look of mando's
made over here." I would recommend against determining the motivations of a
company based on their nationality. That could be viewed as something you
might not have intended.

There's a lot of crap coming from Asia. But there's a lot of crap everywhere.
That doesn't mean that some Asian luthiers are less proud of their work than
American luthiers. The tidbits I've heard coming from the Eastman company
reflect a genuine interest in building a quality instrument.

[John Flynn]

jom:

I agree. Eastman has been in business for a long time. They have only recently gotten into mandos, but they seem to have a good reputation in thier price range for violin family instruments and guitars. Also, as the Eastman marketing guy pointed out here on the Cafe' a while ago, they are truly an American company. They just have thier production in another country, just like many, many American firms, including Epiphone (Gibson) and others.

Here is one thing I have never understood about these discussions: Why is it that people get thier hackles up about mandos made made by Asian people, but they don't seem to get as upset about imports made by Canadians, Czecks, Australians, Italians, Scots, Irish, Brits or even South Americans? Some of those are undercutting U.S. builders also, but they don't seem to generate the ire the Pac Rim makers do.

Because most the other's mentioned are competing with, not undercutting American products. Most the major American builders have risen to the challenge quite well though. Hence the 9 series, Breedlove quartz & even the Collings plain jane models & some Webers.

But a Chinese mando built to very strongly resemble an American made product with no name on the headstock......what do you call that?

Let's take a quick poll. Say I'm gonna send you an F style mando & it is to be your only player for 12 months & the one you will be out in public with. You have 2 choices, which would you choose & you don't get to play them beforehand.

#1 A used Flatiron Festival F.
#2 A new Eastman top of the line F.

"""Why is it that people get thier hackles up about mandos made made by Asian people, but they don't seem to get as upset about imports made by Canadians, Czecks, Australians, Italians, Scots, Irish, Brits or even South Americans?"""

It is usually because those mando's are far far better than the Chineese ones IMHO.

The majority of chineese mando sweatshops are not really skilled workers when it comes to building a handcrafted mandolin.

Please I mean no dis-respect to anybody over this. Just my views.

Also on another thing. I think the Asian products should be taxed coming over here. They get to sell their products cheap over here and undercut our workers but when us Americans try to sell to them they Tax our products thru the roof to where nobody can afford our products overseas.

Of course that is our Government's fault there for not standing up to them.. Fair trade?? Yeah right.

Sorry I know politics is a no-no but it figures in the equation on this I believe.

[Steven Stone]

[Let's take a quick poll. Say I'm gonna send you an F style mando & it is to be your only player for 12 months & the one you will be out in public with. You have 2 choices, which would you choose & you don't get to play them beforehand.

#1 a used Flatiron Festival F
#2 A new Eastman top of the line F ]

First,if I had to go onstage with a mandolin I'd never seen or played before I'd probably want to get a 50 minute stomach virus

If I could play them first I'd choose the one I liked better. Depending on the individual samples I might chose either - I've played Flatirons that did not cut it, just as I've played several Eastman A's (but no F yet) That I would be willing to play onstage.

I bet Michael Cleveland wouldn't care what it said on the headstock.

[John Flynn]

It is usually because those mando's are far far better than the Chineese ones IMHO.

The majority of chineese mando sweatshops are not really skilled workers when it comes to building a handcrafted mandolin.

OK, I agree with you for many of the Pac Rim imports. But back to the premise of this thread, it does not seem to apply to Eastman. They seem to have real luthiers working for them making very cost effective mandos, guitars and violins. Check out thier violin website. BTW, the mandos I played with no name on the headstock were from an early production run. That will not be the norm.

I can tell you, those mandos sounded great. Within a week of each other, I played Eastman's A-4 and Curtis Buckhannon's teens Gibson A-4. The Gibson sounded somewhat better, of course, but the Eastman was not that far behind. It was close enough that it might be a contender after a year of hard playing. I thought it definitely sounded better and was finished better than a Breedlove OO and the list price I saw was within a few bucks.

So I think the "far far better" argument is fading. My guess is actually that the opposite argument has more force. The better the Pac Rim imports get, the more people with object to them, because they will present an even greater threat to our "icon" American brands. I think the real objection will be that they are selling good instruments for the price of mediocre instruments.

Come on Steven, answer the question #1 or #2?

[jlb]

I'd strongly caution folks about an undercurrent that, while it might not be present in this thread, is often present in others like it...the thought that Asian builders are incapable of ever producing a mandolin that would compete in quiality with its American counterpart.

All it takes is one Chinese guy who's super-gifted with wood (and in a country of 3 billion people, there's probably a whole lot more there than there are here) who can afford a plane ticket over here (or Australia) and the patience of an experienced luthier to tutor him as to how these things are made right, and boom, you have a cheaper (perhaps) but equal line of mandolins.

It just has to happen eventually...the question is, do they charge American prices...the US dollar has been pretty weak for some time.

[jlb]

oh yeah... #1

[peterleyenaar]

Dale and JLP, To bad you's guys is only interested in American mandos,
you's guys are missin out, eh, on Apitius, Heiden , Sawchyn , Muth, Wiems , Tubb, and a sh#tload of others that some other Canucks could add to the list Eh ! :-)

[Brian Ray]

Based on the mandos I've played, I would choose #2. I've played nothing but average Flatirons... The two Eastmans I've played were surprisingly nice.

[Steven Stone]

[Come on Steven, answer the question #1 or #2?]

The way you have the question phrased is sort of like:

"By the way, do you still beat your wife?"

Like I said before I would not play anything onstage without playing offstage first. As to which I would buy totally blind (like on ebay, believe it or not, I would buy the Eastman if it was a brand new 2004 latest production over a late production Nashville Flatiron. The Eastman would be less expensive, and if it had the cool-man new case, pretty easy to turn over when and if I got bored with it.

I must stress that the overall build quality of the A model 805 I've got is closer to a Collings in fit and finish than a Gibson. Hard to believe? Yup. True? Yup.

[mandodon]

All the Eastman fiddles I've played sound like a million bucks.

To be honest, I hope their mandolins end up sounding like a million bucks too. Some force out there has to keep American mando prices in some realm of sanity, and it sure hasn't been the Kentucky's, MM's, and MK's of the world.

This is a touchy situation, because I, like most other Americans I assume, want Americans to keep their jobs, but from someone who has been playing the same mandolin for 10 years and is not in the market for a new one, I feel I can say objectively that American mandolin prices (for a mandolin that has a real finish, full body binding, and the "standard" set of features) have leap-frogged over the threshold of insanity.

I know lots of folks have legitimate reasons for there pricing structure, but lets be honest. Even 1K for your average Joe hobbiest is alot to ask, so many just don't buy anything but exisiting Pac Rim mandos of low to mediocre quality. If Eastman, or another company, can produce a product that competes with the big American names for lets say 1K (I'm sure some would argue that they already have), the decision will make itself based on legitimate budget reasons.

Easy analogy: I like imported beers, but I think Sam Adams is just as good. Right now, Sam Adams is generaly cheaper per 6-pack (about $6) than Bass Ale (about 8$), so I'll usually buy the Sam Adams. If I ever saw Bass Ale for $2 a 6-pack, the choice would make itself.

The mandolin market, I think, is ripe for an underdog who can deliver a comparable product to the "standard" mandolin at a middle-class, still send your kid to college, price. If the demand is there, the supply will eventually be there too.

The Asians have ended up kicking our butt in many, many production markets, why not instruments???

[August Watters]

If we believe what we're hearing from the fiddle players, Eastman and some other Chinese-based manufacturers are making high-quality violins. I would submit that even if you're running a manufacturing business, you can't do this without commitment and sincere love of the craft. If capitalizing on cheap labor is the only motivator, is it even possible to get such a complex problem correct?

I went into a hardware store last weekend and noticed the "Vermont American" tools were made in Taiwan -- and if you want to by an American flag you have a choice of the ones made in Guatemala or China.

Draw your own conclusions. . . .

August W

"I must stress that the overall build quality of the A model 805 I've got is closer to a Collings in fit and finish than a Gibson. Hard to believe? Yup. True? Yup"

Steven, I'm having a flashback to several years ago when you had your MK..........

[Lane Pryce]

Scott Cao,Eastman,Angle and Primo are primarily Asian companies that got it right with the fiddles long ago, especially Scott Cao. He has a branch in Campbell Ca. where his higher end and signature instruments are completed.
Mandodon you hit it solidly and I agree that the US market is ripe for a competitor in the 1K range. Wheather its Eastman or Sak-O-Hockie there is an immediate need to be filled. I have not played an Eastman however I would not be surprised if they are well on their way to filling the 1K nich. That F4 sure is purty. Lp