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Thread: Etiquette request

  1. #1
    Site founder Scott Tichenor's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if it's any worse of late or if I'm just noticing it more, but there seems to be a rash of threads started where those starting them attempt to entice us into viewing the content by purposefully not providing enough information about what the real topic matter is.

    If anyone else feels like this is a problem we can live without and would like to chime in that you agree (or not), I'd appreciate it.

    Not everyone has time to read every single thread, so clearly identifying the topic matter is both polite and considerate. I've edited about a half dozen topics in the past 24 hours, providing them with additional information.

    Example: threads titled:
    "I have a question"
    "You won't believe this"
    "What the ??"
    etc.

    Those are examples I'm talking about. How about we focus on making this work a bit better. Anyone agree?

  2. #2
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Agreed, wholeheartily. I spend altogether too much time reading the interesting threads on this board. It helsp to have some more desciptive sub ject line so In can avoid those I do not care to read.

    Thanks, Scott, for bringing this up. Not a major problem b ut one that would make it better for most of us.

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    Registered User ApK's Avatar
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    Even "professional" journalists in traditional news media have lost, or intentionally abandoned, the concept of the informative lead paragraph, so you'd be hard pressed to get the Avergage Joe Poster to be so organized and concise in his writing.

    Noble idea though. Worth asking. I'm betting you'll soon pick a more winnable battle, though.

    ApK

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    Quote Originally Posted by (Scott Tichenor @ July 05 2006, 09:15)
    Example: threads titled:
    "I have a question"
    "You won't believe this"
    "What the ??"
    etc.
    Yeah, I already have a Yahoo Bulk Mail folder full of these things, don't need another.

  5. #5
    Got Buckstrips? Jerry Byers's Avatar
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    Titles like these do a disservice to the community and show a lack of consideration of the original poster.

    I also look at it from a different view point. It's not the original viewing that I care about, it's the future search that unveils useless titles. My searches come up with 10 pages of topics with titles like this - I'll usually pass on those topics. If there was any useful information in those topics, it went unread.

  6. #6
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Excellent point, Jerry. As search engines have become more sensitive in many ways they have become less useful extracting too many options. Clearer subject headings will certainly help that. I'll try to do my part.

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  7. #7
    Mark Jones Flowerpot's Avatar
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    Completely agree here. There's too much stuff to wade through without some decent descriptive title to guide you.

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    Generally speaking, I will not even look at a topic with that kind of subject heading.

    I'm all in favor of transparency. I like it when people use their real names. I like it when topics are described with precision. I like it when motives are not hidden.

    Thanks for nudging folks back in the right direction.
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  9. #9
    Chief Moderator/Shepherd Ted Eschliman's Avatar
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    As moderator of one of the most open-ended sections of the Discussion Board, let me throw out this option. In this era of heightened sensitivity to "liberties of expression," how do you all feel about the moderators having the right to edit words in the topic?

    If we're all on the same page about the uncivility of these topics, the course correction is narrowed to two options, delete thread (a bit too drastic) or edit the words in the topic. (I do this periodically with misspelled words as a courtesy to the author already...)

    Would this bother thread originators or is it stepping over the line?
    Ted Eschliman

    Author, Getting Into Jazz Mandolin

  10. #10
    Registered User otterly2k's Avatar
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    I'm all for it, Ted.

    I don't think we need to be worried here about the moderators having too heavy a hand. You do what you do to make the forum friendly, fair, and as functional as possible. I can't imagine that many of the board regulars or long term participants will have any trouble trusting you guys to do this tastefully, and in a way that continues to allow expression.

    You may run into some misunderstandings with new posters, but I'm sure a diplomatic message to the post originator will take care of most concerns.
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  11. #11
    M@ńdş|ˇń - M@ńdşce||ş Keith Erickson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (mandohack @ July 05 2006, 11:43)
    In this era of heightened sensitivity to "liberties of expression," how do you all feel about the moderators having the right to edit words in the topic?
    Ted,

    I was under the impression that the website was private property. #The ownership of this website allows guests to post but the ownership had the right to delete or change posts however they see fit.

    I hope that I don't come off as too crass but since it's your website and you pay the bills, it's your rules. #Just set the rules and we will follow them.

    With that being said, I don't think that what you have asked from us has ever been an too outragious or impossible to follow. #Over time things do change and as the owners, you may see fit to adjust the rules a little bit. #If that's the case, I'm sure none of us would have any problems with your decsions.



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  12. #12
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    Your idea gets my vote too, Ted. #You moderators have always been reasonable when applying the rules. #And it's a better choice than simply deleting all threads with vague or incoherent titles. #FWIW.

  13. #13

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    I'm the moderator on another, large,non-music-related board. While I have the ability to edit a post, I do it with the utmost reluctance.
    My preference is that if I'm going to take the time to modify what was written, it takes no less time to contact the author and ask them to reconsider, edit or delete the post themselves. This also saves the back and forth with the originator of the post when they ask for an explanation.
    If the post is offensive or out of line in other ways, I'll just delete it.

    Getting back to your original question, Scott, yes, non-descriptive headings are a PITA to everyone and I usally ignore them in favor of spending time on a thread that I KNOW will be of more interest from its description.

    Thanks for bringing this up and for listening to my opinion.
    This is a great board.

  14. #14
    Registered User ApK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (8_String_Keith @ July 05 2006, 12:02)
    Quote Originally Posted by (mandohack @ July 05 2006, 11:43)
    In this era of heightened sensitivity to "liberties of expression," how do you all feel about the moderators having the right to edit words in the topic?
    I was under the impression that the website was private property. #The ownership of this website allows guests to post but the ownership had the right to delete or change posts however they see fit.

    I hope that I don't come off as too crass but since it's your website and you pay the bills, it's your rules. #Just set the rules and we will follow them.
    Keith, while everything you say is true, the owners know that the users are the raison d'etre of the forum, so Ted is wise to get user feedback before taking such action.

    Ted, My only concern about change thread titles would be possibly blowing a joke or undoing some clever writing.
    That is, some titles are crafted to hide information but encourage users to look for some sort of satisfying reveal in the body.

    I'd either hope to see the mods individually examine the content before changing a title, though this might take more time than you'd have to spend, or perhaps see some sort of automated filter in place for titles..perhaps a filer that prevent title from ONLY consisting of a certain list of words, like:
    Question
    Help
    Please
    Fiddle
    New

    In all, though, I have no libertarian issue with it, and like the other posters in this thread, I'd sure prefer some good editorship to having to wade through 30 posts all called "Help please." #:-)

    ApK




  15. #15
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    At first read, I completly agree with Scott/Ted on the accuracy of topic titles. Here's my only challenge: What about the "Newbie with a Question" thread. I mean the first post and maybe s/he's not lurked long enough to fully appreciate the accuracy of the other threads. I always like to respond with consideration to these posts and actually feel there could be no-more-accurate title.
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    Registered User ApK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (fatt-dad @ July 05 2006, 13:13)
    At first read, I completly agree with Scott/Ted on the accuracy of topic titles. #Here's my only challenge: #What about the "Newbie with a Question" thread. [. . .] actually feel there could be no-more-accurate title.
    Instead of:
    ----
    Title: #Newbie with a question
    Body: #Hi, I'm a newbie. #How do I tune a mandolin?
    ---

    Why shouldn't the mods change the title to: #How do I tune a mandolin?

    Or to: #Newbie question: How to tune a mandolin?

    ApK

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    If you are going to change topic titles, make it clear that the topic was provided by the moderator. I don't mind you changing things if necessary, but I hate to be blamed (or praised) for another's words.
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    Registered Muser dang's Avatar
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    Ted- I think you should edit the spelling in the posts too, not the just the titles!

    Maybe we could get the message board to work like microsoft word, with spelling errors automatically changed and mis-spelled words underlined, poor grammar underlined in a different color...I really love when the first letter of a sentence is capitalized for me... Probably could be coded in a weekend!

    Really though, maybe another link under the posting guidelines to something entitled "Etiquette" could solve the problem. How are new posters to find out about things not specifically stated in the "Posting Guidelines" ?
    I should be pickin' rather than postin'

  19. #19
    Site founder Scott Tichenor's Avatar
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    This thread was started to encourage the proper titling of Topics. We're now talking about editing posts <sigh>. That was not and is not the subject of the original post, and isn't even a matter of concern in my opinion. Although I edited out an inappropriate remark just today, it's rare that it's necessary and it's done when posts contain content outside of the posting guidelines, which I know you've all read carefully <snicker>.

    I'm simply asking that if you start a new topic, you should supply a title that gives users of this forum a general idea of what the subject matter is instead of duping people into looking at your message. I'm already adding information to a thread title if I can't begin to tell what the topic is about and feel that people are being deceived. Whether it's intentional or not, the end result is still the same. It's simply common sense for a thread to have an appropriate title. I've been around long enough to know this discussion won't fix it, but I also know doing nothing isn't going to help.




  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by (J. Mark Lane @ July 05 2006, 11:12)
    Generally speaking, I will not even look at a topic with that kind of subject heading. #

    I'm all in favor of transparency. #I like it when people use their real names. #I like it when topics are described with precision. #I like it when motives are not hidden.
    Mark just wants subject headings and real names for billing purposes. You know that whole lawyer's time thing.

    (yes Mark, I will be waiting for my bill in the mail any day now )
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  21. #21
    Registered User Bob DeVellis's Avatar
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    I like the idea of encouraging people to be clear. Although I have no philosophical issue with moderators editing headers, my concern is that it might make posters feel like they don't need to pay attention to the headers themselves.

    Question: Is there a way for the poster to edit the header? As I recall, I made a typo in a new-topic header once and couldn't figure out how to edit it, although the body of the post was easy to change.
    Bob DeVellis

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    I saw "Etiquette Request" and expected to see something about: 1) asking banjo players to back off; or 2) chastising noodlers for noodling all the time, playing over everyone else's break - then refusing to take their own - creating dead air during a jam. Such an awkward moment, waiting for the alpha male to pick again...reminiscent of "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" showdown. Now I've wasted my time (and yours). I demand satisfaction!

  23. #23
    Registered User ApK's Avatar
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    Yeah, this thread should have been called "Netiquette Request."

    If the mods do edit the title, could the poster get a message saying "The mods have edited your post title for clarity." Maybe that'll help remind people to do it themselves?

  24. #24

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    A note somewhere in the content of the "new topic" form will likely take care of many ambiguous titles. Something like "Please keep titles pertinent and to the point" right above or below the "title" box.

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