What happens when the band breaks up?

[Pen]

My bands been playing out with regularity for almost a year now. #In order to make the band "go" we've used band funds to purchase things (like our trailer, board, etc). #I'd say, all told we have about $4,000 worth of stuff. #Not a ton right now - but it will continue to grow I'm sure.

Now, we're all really good friends. #I got to thinking this weekend, what would happen if either the band broke up - or one individual left? #We don't have anything decided.

What arrangements have you guys made to accomodate either of the above situations that will allow us to leave the band just as we came together as a band - as friends.

[Ken Sager]

The question you should ask is what your band can do to accomodate a friendly dissolution of the band, and the people you should ask are your band members. Every band is different, every situation is different.

From my experience, proceeds from recordings, gear, rights to songs written by an individual for a band to play, etc., need to be established at the point of origin. When you buy something decide then what will happen to it after the band disbands. When you record an album, decide then how to split up the proceeds and extra prints after the band splits. It's almost impossible to amicably settle some disputes AFTER the band has decided to call it quits.

The first step to splitting up a band as friends is to commit to each other to remain friends first, regardless of what happens to the band.

I've also seen people leave bands so folks could remain friends, as the band situation changed the nature of their relationship.

How's that?
Best,
Ken

[Bob Denton]

The bands I have played in we were essentially "employees" of the band. The owner of the equipment was the corporation and if you left, you took what was your only.

The other 4 musicians were full time and I was the only one with a "flexible" day job.

When I quit (Too many late nights and ringing ears) it was like leaving a day job. The band retained all the common property and I took my stuff with me.

I would suggest holding all the shared gear in common, owned by the band and when some one leaves, the equipment remains with the band. Think of it as start up costs. If the band breaks up, liquidate all and divide equally amongst the current members.

Another iddea is to allocate a share of every gig to the "band" for equipment, maintenance, etc.

At one point, I purchased a new PA system and the PA received a share when we used it. It was shown as a "rental" charge for tax purposes and eventually paid for the PA.

Cya

[jaydee]

Not too long ago my band lost a member and we gave him what was essentially a buy out for his share invested in gear, and in the general fund. We figured out what the band was worth (that'll open your eyes) and gave the departing member his equal share. It was a sad situation, but one that we all agreed was fair. I wish we had discussed this before we were faced with it, but I think we would have come to the same solution.
Jeremy

[sbarnes]

our band does it like this:
if a member leaves on his own accord - he takes what's his personal equipment and leaves his investment in communal equipment w/the band....(possible to still be friends)
if a member is 'fired' he is bought out....paid what the remaining members deem a fair market value for his investment in the communal equipment....(very unlikely to still be friends)...
all of our recording projects to date have been 'cover' tunes so no royalties involved but if he had writers credit he would continue to receive those....

[jaydee]

sbarnes,
So, if a member leaves on good terms, but wants to recoup the money they have sunk into the band you don't think you can stay friends? And you would expect your friend to not ask for what is theirs upon departing? I hope that I've misunderstood you, could you clarify please?
Jeremy

[EdSherry]

I'd suggest that your band talk it over NOW, BEFORE the situation of "how the @#$%^ do we deal with this?" #arises in practice. #

There's lots of ways of doing it. #In my experience, you should deal with (at least) three eventualities: #the band breaks up entirely; one member leaves voluntarily; and one member is fired (or forced out). #

I was once in a band where we got an appraisal of the used value of the equipment, and those of us who wanted to buy the others out did so.

I've also been in bands where one of the members owned most of the equipment, and the band paid a "rental" fee for the use of his gear. #Fair to everyone.

If you're doing a recording, work out in advance how you're going to deal with recording/pressing costs, and what happens if some members leave (e.g., are they "on the hook" for their share of the costs that are not yet recouped? #Who retains the unsold CDs?)

Once you've decided, WRITE OUT what you've agreed to and get everyone to sign it. #Then when the breakup eventually happens (as it will sooner or later), you can just implement what you've agreed to. #But in my experience, working it out IN ADVANCE makes everything easier in the long run.

Pete Wernick sells a book "How To Make A Band Work" that he originally self-published a number of years ago on how to run a bluegrass band. #It has a lot of VERY good advice on many topics (including this one). He sells it on his website. #Look under "Store" and "Books" at http://drbanjo.com/ . Or you can get it through Mel Bay.

[Bob Denton]

I think the bottom line is: "Is the band a hobby or a business?" If a business, then do what is good for the band, if a hobby be nice and stay friends.

Cya!

[sbarnes]

clarification:
if a member leaves on his own accord.....that is, he just wants to 'spend more time w/the family,...no problems within the band, etc...he is leaving on good terms...
then we can still be friends.....the money part is already understood...if you leave communal property stays

if on the other hand someone if fired...that usually causes hard feelings and you're probably not going to still be friends.....the money part is also already understood.....he receives his share of the perceived value of the communal property...

not a perfect solution i know but it's the way we do it...we've only had one major personnel change in 15 years and he was 'asked to leave' so feelings were hurt....we still owe him his 'buyout' but we're working on that...

thing is, the 'rules' are understood by all involved BEFORE any changes or breakups....

[EdSherry]

I wish I agreed that it was as simple as whether "it's a hobby or a business." #In either case, there are assets and (in some instances) liabilities that have to be divvied up. #

I've been in bands where the amount spent on equipment exceeded the amount of money the band earned, and the second-hand value of the equipment didn't make up the difference, so the band was "in the hole." #I've been in other bands that have gigged enough (for pay -- yay!) to build up a sizeable little "nest egg" of equipment "free and clear." #In the latter case, a leaving member might (justifiably) say "why should I not get a share of the value I helped build up?" #(There may be good reasons why not, such as when the equipment is needed for the band to continue to play in the future; but the fact that the departure is "voluntary" doesn't strike me as dispositive. #After all, the band could always buy out the leaving member's interest.)

Many bands I know have to find some way to finance their self-produced CDs. #If someone leaves before the debt is paid off, can they just walk away from the situation and leave the others hanging? #Many self-produced CDs never break even. #It's especially problematic if the band breaks up entirely, as then the prospect of selling the as-yet-unsold CDs largely disappears.

IMHO, there is no one "right" way to resolve the various issues. # But in my experience, talking them out and reaching agreement in advance is (generally) much less acrimonious than waiting until the problem arises.

[Mike Crocker]

There's some pretty good advice here.

As much as possible, own your own gear. That means your own mics, cables, stands (music, mic, and instrument), personal monitors, pickups, amplifiers, sub-mixers, and whatever else. (It's always easier when someone already owns the p.a. outright and if that's you, all the better.) When you leave, you'll be equiped for the next band, or if you're in more than one band you'll have what you need for any scenerio. Also, if rental is a factor, the band needs less because everyone will have their own linkage.

As for splitting up common property, whoever leaves should get their investment back, possibly minus the depreciation, but this should be worked out far in advance. In the alternative, if the group buys the p.a., perhaps one person could buy out the others over time.

Most bands I've been in have had someone who owned the p.a. and everyone owned their own linkage. One or two have had to rent in which case those costs were deducted from the gig income before it was split between the band members.

For whatever reason I've had the misfortune to be in bands where singers didn't even own their own mics and related stuff, and were always borrowing. I always have more than I can use, but I resent always subsidizing others who are paid equally. Consider this when the band uses one person's p.a. all the time without compensation. It might be okay, but it will depend on the individual.

Peace, Mooh.

[jaydee]

sbarnes, thanks for clarifying. I missed the "everyone understands the deal" part of it. No matter what they are, I agree that setting guidelines from the getgo is the way to do it.
Jeremy

[Stephen Perry]

Wouldn't an ad hoc band simply be a partnership and most reasonably governed by either default partnership law or by written agreement? If I recall correctly, a partnership need not be explicitly agreed to, but can be found where partners each contribute, share in management, and share profits and losses. Share in profits generally determines whether one is a partner or not.

I can see band conflict where the band thinks a person working with them is an independent contractor or an employee, but the individual thinks of herself as a partner.

A partnership agreement or the establishment of another type of legal entity might be useful.

[chuck.naill]

we've used band funds to purchase things

What are band funds? Did each member contribute? If I did not contribute anything, I would not expect to be a part of the dissolution proceeds.

The instruments that I use in the group I am with belong to me. If out lead singer started buying stuff, that's his business not mine. I like to keep things individual in cases like this, kind of a band prenup.

chuck

[musical mama]

In the group I'm with, I own my mandolin and my mic and cord. #When our group formed, the husband/wife team I work with already had a PA system and their instruments. #We've been friends for years, so thankfully the issues of "what is who's" when we eventually disband should not even come up since we came into this knowing who owned what. #The money we make is split three ways after all gas mileage is deducted and set aside (we can't all fit in one vehicle; we have four children between us who always go along). #It works well for us...but then we're a very small group.

[Klaus Wutscher]

From my experience, I would not make any difference wheter one leaves or is fired; our banjo player realized that he did not want to play festivals because the pressure scares him; we said that we can´t play the gigs we want to play beause he doesn´t want to. Now did he leave or did we fire him?

As far as PA and equipment, ideally one person owns it; if everybody owns it you are guarantteed to have a mess sooner or later.

When my first band disbanded we set on 800 CDs which we split evenly; everybody still has + 100 at home but what can you do. Breaking up/leaving a band sucks!

[EdSherry]

Re Klaus's "ideally one person owns" the PA suggestion: #that certainly makes it easier from one perspective (especially if the band breaks up), but then the issue becomes: # how to compensate that one person for the use of his/her equipment? #

I've been in bands where we set aside a separate "share" of the income as (in effect) "rental" for the PA -- e.g., if you're in a five-piece band, you split the money six ways, with one share going to each member (for playing) and the sixth share going to the owner of the PA (to compensate for the wear and tear on the equipment). # #

Or you could figure out a fair "rental" rate for the use of the equipment (typically, something less than it would cost to rent the same gear from a local rental service) and pay that off the top, then split the remainder among the band members.

Pete Wernick's book (mentioned in an earlier post) has a lot of good suggestions on these and other issues.