Brekke Bridge Insert

[dang]

Hello

I have a Bighorn (with F-holes) that I really love, and when I custom ordered it I went with the Original Brekke bridge because the wood on wood contact seemed to make sense. #Also, the few mandos that I had played with this brige I liked. #I love the sound of my bighorn, and the tone is there, but for the bluegrass setting it seems like it is missing something. #Not as cutting as my Gibson A9, a different sound alltogether. #Since I have been gravitating towards bluegrass more and more, I have wanted to try and change out the bridge for something like a Cumberlad Acoustics bridge. #I'm not ready to give up on the Brekke yet, so I really started analyzing what I don't like about the sound.

Some people criticize the Original Brekke bridge because they say (this is the most extreme example I could find) "parts of the instrument's response are simply clipped off by the inefficiency of the design, leaving just mids and lows." #In general the way people describe these bridges seems to be dark. #Now, I really like the way my bighorn sounds, but it does seem a bit heavy on the bass and less balanced in the trebels. #

I had heard of Peter Coombe's modifications to the brekke and this sounded like it makes sense, but I didn't want to undertake any irreversible changes to my bridge (just in case I didn't like it).

I had also come across the fossilized wallrus ivory inserts sold by Kurt at www.huskyacoustics.com (the site seems to be down) which sounded like a reasonable thing to try, but more money than I wanted to invest. #But the general consensus on these is seems to be that they tend to "brighten" an instrument, with some increase in volume.

I had read of other cafe members making this insert out of bone (jim simpson for one), so for $5 I bought a bone acoustic guitar saddle from a local music store, got out my saw and files and went to work on it....it took about 2 hours on this first attempt to recreate as exactly at possible the wooden insert. #All in all things went really well, I got the insert in there and everything setup correctly and I am 100% happy with this $5 + time investment in my mando. #My initial impressions are that the high register is louder than before, balancing out the bass side (which didn't seem to change much). #If you find the need to "fiddle" with your mando (sorry, I couldn't resist) I would say give it a try!

So, (if you have read this far!) here is my question...do you think changing out the highth adjusting wedge on the trebel side of the bridge for a piece of bone would have any negative effects? #Would it have any effect on the sound? #I guess what I am asking is: what about bone on bone sound transfer? #Would the pieces of bone have more of a tendancy to stick together, making adjustments harder?

[Antlurz]

Would the pieces of bone have more of a tendancy to stick together, making adjustments harder?

As far as that part of your question, the bone...at least most bone... can be polished like glass, so sticking shouldn't be a problem.

Ron

[jim simpson]

dang Dan,
Glad to hear of your experimenting. Antlurz is right about polishing the bone so it won't stick. I never thought to try making the wedge out of bone. You'll have to post the outcome. I ended up getting rid of my Yellowstone but the buyer told me to leave the bone insert in the Brekke. I thought it helped the high end.

[steve in tampa]

I've got the Husky FI insert in a maple Brekke bridge and it is fantastic. I'm sure th ebone would be a good move. The original maple capped with ebony insert got wallered out after several string changes.

[Frank Russell]

I'll second the thumbs up on the Kurt Gisclair fossilized walrus ivory Brekke insert - it definitely improved the sound I got. Bone might just be the ticket. I usually ended up changing the Brekke bridges on my Webers out for a more traditional style bridge. Much more cutting power, and usually less "muddiness." Frank

[ajh]

I also used Kurt's fossilized walrus ivory insert, after doing the changes recommended by Peter Coombe (as well as shortening the overall length to 4.38" and radiusing off the square corners on the insides of the legs).....definitely more clarity to all strings.
These changes were all done in steps, then using the same (old) strings . Stock standard bridge, standard Brekke, modified taper to the body on the Brekke, shorten the legs on the Brekke. Then maybe 9 months later put the FWI bridge in. Just kept getting better and better.

One thing to watch when using a Brekke is to make sure the bridge insert is kept level with the top of the bridge body/saddle. If you go very much off flat, the angle on the bottom of the insert won't match up with the wedge angle, giving a point to point contact on both sides. Huge impact on things.

I also did a bunch of experimenting with the Red Henry designs. Different woods and cutouts. The Brekke still came out sounding best (to my ear at least).

Regards, Tony

[dang]

I recently acquired a Hyalite oval hole which has an original Brekke bridge, and I started making a bone insert for this bridge saddle also.

Does anyone have any experience with bone (or FI) saddles on oval hole instruments?

I am curious to find out how the sound will change...

[dang]

I finished my bone insert for my Hyalite Oval, and I am quite happy with the results. I have had it on there for a week, and it is a bit louder than before. The overall sound has a bit more clarity between notes though it still has that oval hole effect of the notes "mingling" before they exit the sound chamber (compared to f-holes).

It's hard to pin down exactly what the difference is, but to my ears, it is as if someone has tweeked the EQ a little and brought out a depth to the tone that was muddied before.
I also have monel strings on there, so it is not the most traditional setup, but I think I fall along the line of people who like oval hole instruments to have a bit of edge to the sound.
I'll get a picture of the two instruments side by side and post it soon...

[dang]

It doesn't look like much, but the little white strips in the bridge(s) took a lot of time!

[arossi]

Been playing my 2000 Gibson F5G and to my very inexperienced ear (2 year beginner) I thought it needed something, although other pro players that have played my mando always have positive comments on its sound and tone! Being the tinkerer I am, I decided to try a Brekke bridge that I purchased a long time ago but after trying it back then, it didn't do it any good! Today, I said, self, let's try it again only this time let's try some of the tips we read here and so we did. I fitted the bridge to the top of the mando better this time although still not quite perfect on one side. Seeing as how lighter seems to be better, I decided to drill about 8-10 (can't remember) vertical holes along the bottom of the bridge from one side to the other. I wanted to drill and cut out the saddle to leave solid wood under the E and G strings but got so keyed up I forgot! Next time I will try that! Reason I say next time is, it sounds SO good right now after playing it while the turkey smoked in the smoker that I hate to change it! This thing literally came alive with a chop so defined that the neighbor came over and asked if I had enough wood for the smoker. The treble side really sings and the tones last what seems forever! I checked the intonation and it is dead on all the way across each string! Like I said, it's not a perfect fit as I can barely see day light under one side but man I hate to change it now that it sounds like it does! Could it get even better? Was wondering about the saddles everyone is referring to. Walrus or bone! Are there sources for these for the Brekke bridge already slotted that won't cost me my first born child who happens to be grown up and gone but hey, I will try anything!
Anyway, Happy Thanksgiving and have ya'll a GREAT Pickin day today! I am!

[VernBrekke]

Hi all,

If you have the bridge apart, it is always a good idea to use a pencil and coat all the matching edges with graphite. It will allow them to adjust easier and not stick.


Thanks,


Vern Brekke
Sound to Earth

[dwhite]

I wonder why nobody has ever tried a jade bridge/nut. Its tougher than diamond and takes a fantastic polish.

[jim simpson]

If jade is similar in density to ivory, it might make it too bright. I had a pearl nut that sounded great on one mandolin but too bright on another.

[tatwell]

arossi: Interesting work you did , lightening the bridge. I don't have a Brekke bridge-thinking of getting one though-but I did fit a new bridge a couple of years ago, and added a bone insert for the A and E strings. This really helped those strings and I'm thinking of just making a complete bone saddle, but I'm also going to trim the bridge contact area at the same time. Somewhere on the forum I know I have read about doing this, just haven't found it again. If you want to try a bone insert-I know you asked about one already made-it isn't all that hard or expensive to make you one, especially considering the work you did fitting the bridge. Once again, good work, and thanks for posting your experience.

[DerTiefster]

Red Henry made a post several weeks ago (so it seems) about narrowing the feet of a bridge. I'm not absolutely certain of why it helped to his ears in his case, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was because the top wanted to tilt like a violin mode for those frequencies rather than simply move up and down. Too wide feet or a full contact bridge would intuitively (and this may be -incorrect- so don't take it as Revealed Truth or my version of it) squelch a motion which is not simply the gross up/down compression mode. Too much mass in the bridge would also do similar things.

Here's Red's page on narrow bridge foot development:
http://www.murphymethod.com/index.cf...t&contentId=91
here is his page on bridge work in general:
http://www.murphymethod.com/index.cf...t&contentId=87
I hope he doesn't change the numbers occasionally, just to keep thing more interesting....
His results are fascinating enough without that complication.

[Michael Lewis]

Some great sounding mandolins have full contact bridges, John Reischman's '24 Loar is a good example.

[arossi]

tatwell> thanks but let me clarify. I used a brekke non conventional bridge and I didn't take anything off the feet of the bridge so it's still a full contact bridge. What I did was to turn it upside down in the drill press and drilled holes from the bottom up all the way across the bottom of the bridge which took material out of the bridge itself making it slightly lighter. Don't ask me how much lighter as I haven't a clue! Did it make a difference? Don't ask me that either but what I DO know is, whne I first got the bridge, I was disappointed with the tone it gave compared to the original bridge that came on my 2000 F5G Gibson. As I said, being the tinkerer I am and easily bored, I decided to try the above after reading some of Red's building tips! I think at times it sounds GREAT and at other times, it sounds like #### but keep in mind, I have only been TRYING to play for about 2 years on an off so MY ear isn't what I or anyone else for that matter would call expertise! Now, If I could only find a local person that would take the time to show me what I need to know so I can proceed I would be like a kid at Christmas!

[dang]

It has been a while since I started this thread, the years have flown by since 2006 but I thought I would update my progression of my bridge setup on my Weber Bighorn...

I was quite happy with my sound and setup for my Bighorn for at least 3-4 years, but in 2010 when I finished school I purchased myself a Collings MT gloss top that sounded amazing. In fact, it made me more than a little discontent with the sound of my Bighorn. But I liked the playability of the Bighorn better, so I sent my Bighorn back to Weber and they replaced the old style Brekke bridge (with bone insert as pictured above) with the Brekke Traditional bridge. While I was at it I asked them to put on a speed neck. (Or would that be take off?)

That was about 2 years ago, and I have been VERY happy with the sound improvement since. My Bighorn really opened up and the sound is much more balanced. Not going to go into a bunch of subjective terms here, but suffice it to say I stopped favoring my Collings and now really only play my Bighorn. Nothing can really beat a custom instrument. The speed neck is very enjoyable and I believe has improved the neck feel, but I don't really think I am any faster than with a finished neck.

2014 will be 10 years with my Bighorn, and I am still a satisfied customer.
Dan G.

[Michael Weaver]

I have the traditional Brekke on my custom Yellowstone. I've always loved that bridge and was also discouraged from getting the original Brekke by several people that had changed theirs out. I like having the adjustable wrench for one and to most people it looks like a regular bridge.

[Harmon Gladding]

Hi all,

If you have the bridge apart, it is always a good idea to use a pencil and coat all the matching edges with graphite.

Since pencil cores have clay (not a good lubricant) mixed with the graphite, I like to use graphite powder in such situations. Hardware stores carry it. Great bridge discussion!