Classifieds Usage Change

[Scott Tichenor]

I'm wondering what opinions are on use of the classifieds, in particular, that of sellers deleting and resubmitting their ads ever few days so they are bounced to the top. Personally this hit a breaking point for me yesterday, hence the note posted at the top of the classifieds page saying:

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***Sellers*** please! Give us a rest. Please stop resubmitting the same ads every few days. This is a very tiresome practice that has gotten out of control.
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I've never really attempted to enforce a policy of denying this but after years of watching it, I'm now strongly considering it. In short, there's enough of it that it's watering down Keyword Notifications and generally cramming too much information in that most of us have already seen. Yes, I realize if you're a seller there is a perceived advantage to this practice, but imagine all 300+ being resubmitted every few days or even once a week. It'd be a mess.

Are we really doing the community a favor by allowing quick resubmissions, or are we just watering down content and turning this into a retail center for some? My personal feeling is this practice isn't healthy.

Is the 30 & 60 option too long? Too short?

[bluegrassjack2]

I'd like to see a dealer area and a different area for us people who are Cafe members and just common folks to submit theirs.
I dont think dealers should use the cafe classifies for sales, they should have their own web sites and/or other venues for selling their stuff.

[kww]

60 days is fine.

[jmkatcher]

I like the idea of a separate dealer area for instruments (and possibly another for assorted rubber goods with magical properties ). The current intervals seem reasonable to me. I would like to see a larger size retrieval option than the current 25. It's quite tedious to browse back to the beginning with the current system.

[Scott Tichenor]

Separate dealer area is also something under consideration. Personally I don't have a problem with dealers selling used instruments, but seeing every new Brand X mandolin that comes in a store when dozens of dealers carries them--I have mixed feelings about that. OK if done tastefully, but therein lies the problem with a minority.

By the way, whilst I'm grumping about this, I'm also doing a bit of work on the classifieds trying to reduce the overall download time and usability. Whether I'm making progress is an opinion everyone's entitled to. So far, today, I can see measurable progress so as long as it's moving in the right direction that's the goal.

[Greenmando]

I think the 30 day is fine, I had wondered if sellers had found a 3 day option. I have no problem with dealers in the classifeds in moderation.

[loosej]

how about you can only list the same instrument once every 14 days or so.

[jmkatcher]

How about adding auto-promotion to the top on renewal. A free bump after 30/60 days seems like a reasonable thing to have.

[man doh]

I'll admit I bump my ads only if something changes like price. How about a spot for instruments and a spot for other stuff. I hate when you post an ad and a day later its on page 3 because someone sells a case, dvd, and a pack of strings and your knocked off.

[GTison]

how bout a larger first page or larger pages and less of them. I don't mind the dealers most times being in the same line up. I understand the 1st page bump because I many times don't go beyond the 1st page. Or maybe a division by price... sometimes it's entertaining like the guy with the Blonde 'master model" that thing was re-listed umpteen times. ( May be on there now)

[JimW]

Scott, I've sold a few items on the classifieds here. It's a great service, but as you have stated, it can be abused. I think there is a definate advantage to having your item listed on the first page, but a constant delete, re-submit can get tiresome. Here are my suggestions:

1. Make the front page list more than 25 ads, something like 50 to 75 maybe. That would give the sellers ad more time on the front page.

2. Only allow a resubmission of an existing ad if the price has been reduced. Maybe have a resubmission area from the "edit" ad to do this.

Just a couple thoughts.

Jim Watts

[sgarrity]

I've bought and sold quite a few mandolins off the classifieds. They are a great service. I usually let my ad get to page 4-5 before re-submitting. I'd like to see more ads per page and the ability to re-submit maybe every 15 days?

[Jerry Byers]

I personally bump my one ad every 30 days - didn't think it was causing a problem. My personl gripe is that most the stuff that is 30 days or older is not available. I have contacted several people towards the end of the stack and get no response or told that it was sold a long time along. People are not cleaning off their old ads. I have also seen the same item posted 2 and 3 times - somebody needs to educate people how they can edit their own ads.

I think 60 days serves no purpose, unless you could set up an area for repeatable items. Both Steve and I are not dealers (I could be wrong with him) and we like to keep our harmonic suppressors listed. I know a couple of folks that do straps like to do the same thing.

I know I might get shot for this suggestion, but have you ever considered charging for ad submissions? I wouldn't have a problem for paying a buck or two to list items and keep them auto-bumped to the top.

Also, is there any way to add some other categories? It makes sense to me to have an area for mandos and one for parts. Maybe one for services, etc.

[Ted Eschliman]

I'm glad to see the "reposting" issue addressed. There are a few individuals abusing this, and it creates a visceral temptation to escalate as one "competes" with new entries. This is most definitely abuse when the relisting is just that, "relisting," especially before the first 30 days. Let the new entries have a chance...

As far as a seperate "Dealer" section, c'mon!... Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Some of us dealers do exercise disgression advertising ONLY singular and niche gear, and don't abuse the Classifieds by posting a laundry list of inventory. Maybe I'm narrow, but to me, isolating my goods in a seperate advertising wasteland would be as much a disservice to potential buyers as it would to me, the seller. (We already have the tag "Dealer" in our ad; isn't the reader obligated to put forth a little of his/her own discretion?)

[steve V. johnson]

I like Jim Watts' suggestions, above. When I've listed on the Cafe Classifieds, I've been pleasantly surprised at getting replies long after the listing. (It seemed a long time to me... <GG>)

I haven't found bumping to be useful, therefore.

I'd like to see more ads per page. I feel that dealers use the classifieds quite well and with good restraint now, and many thanks to them for that.

Other than that, I sympathise with your angst over the recent blitz.

Thanks,

stv

[red7flag]

I just feel that dealers are a different animal. Ted you are a class act, and I buy your picks, a lot. I just don't want to wade through dealers. When I want that I go to the regular web. I think having a section for non-instrument items and for dealer items would be excellent. That way you can more easily find what you are looking for.
Thank you Scot. The classified are a great service.
Tony

[pmadison]

This topic seems to have come to a fork in the road, as far as the replys. One fork: reposting to the top of the list. The other fork: dealers.
To draw a conclusion, do dealers abuse the most? Probably
Craigslist doesn't allow dealers to list, and they allow listing for 7 days. The problem is that someone has to constantly monitor the listings scanning for the dealer that will try and list. It happens. Alot.
If one is brave enough to leave the cafe, do a quick search for the yadayada mando u r looking for and walla....10 thousand dealers.
My vote.....no dealers and shorter days.

[sunburst]

Both Steve and I are not dealers (I could be wrong with him) and we like to keep our harmonic suppressors listed. I know a couple of folks that do straps like to do the same thing.

Perhaps there should be a section for things like that, where the ads run all the time, with perhaps a minimal monthly(?) charge.

I have listed a mandolin for sale twice since I've been a member, and didn't sell either one. I'm glad I wasn't charged for the priviledge of listing them.
That seems like a totally different thing from listing an accessory on a regular basis.
I've also listed tailpieces about twice. If there was a section for accerssories, where the ads ran all the time, that would seem to me to be a better place for them, and I wouldn't mind paying a minimal fee. It could be a book-keeping nightmare, though.

As for dealers, I think the disclaimer is enough. No need for a separate section if they are listing an instrument once in a while.

The problem is: there is no easy way to require courtesy, or enforce the requirement. Removing ads after the item has sold, refraining from excessive "bumping", just common courtesy there.

[Scott Tichenor]

Let me clarify a few things. I have no problem with an ad that has hit 30 days, been auto-deleted by the software and then gets resubmitted. That's the way it should work, conceivably. I'm tired, and I suspect many of you are, of seeing the same ad over and over and over again, every week and sometimes less. I've seen people bump them back to the top every other day, which I typically will call someone on. Now throw in people that sell a product, say straps as an example, and they have them listed in four different places with slight modifications. And then the overly aggressive store owner or private collector that needs to list five instruments in a row in five different ads. No wonder ads disappear off the front page so fast.

I suspect this is just something we need to police a bit and get it back in line. I can't point fingers really because this has existed for a long time. I think it's time it changed though.

Making more than 25 on a page. In full view mode how many of you are willing to wait for that download on a modem? The current in full view mode showing 25 is approaching 425K. I have plans to code this in a fashion that's less size consuming but it's still a lot of data and will still be a big wait time in the browser.

Still mostly good observations, although I don't get it when people say "I never look past the first page". That's a *choice*.

[mrmando]

As one of the dealers who was causing the problem, I'd like to publicly apologize and solemnly swear from now on to follow the 30-day rule -- or whatever rules are established. Until now I hadn't considered the negative side of frequent reposting, so I'd like to thank y'all for bringing it to my attention.

Vote: 30-day rule, maybe take away the option to post ads in more than one category. (Right now, dealers can list an item as both "Dealer" and "For Sale." Make them list only as "Dealer," and then people who don't want to look at dealer ads don't have to.)

[Scott Tichenor]

You weren't causing the problem, Martin. Period.

As I said earlier, I'm not pointing fingers. I think everyone in general will benefit from allowing these ads some breathing rooms.

[ninevah]

I'd like to see more groups

1. New Mandolins
2. Used Mandolins
3. Mandolin Accessories
4. Wanted
5. Trades
6. Lost or Stolen

Rules:
1. 30 days max then add gets auto back to top, one round trip. After 60 days add gets deleted
2. Seller can repost to top after 15 days.


Can't see that having a separate Dealer section does anything, as there is one there already, and you see dealers in both groups now.

[otterly2k]

I think a separate area for accessories would be worthwhile. I also think that there should be a place for people who want to list something always for sale (such as the people who always sell straps or silencers or a certain line of products) and ask them to pay a moderate fee for a permanent listing in that place... so they don't have to post and repost in the time sensitive classifieds.

With reminders for people to remove sold items, I see no reason why ads should not run their full term and move down the pages unless there is some significant change in the content. There IS a search feature and people should use it. More listings on the front page would be helpful with any of these suggestions.

thanks, Scott, for all you do, and your constant interest in making the Cafe the best place it can be.

[John Flynn]

Otterly:

I was just writing a suggestion about having a seperate section for accessories when yours came up. I second your suggestion!

[JEStanek]

Would it be feasible to make subsections of the For Sale area (e.g., Instruments, Gear, Videos/CDs). #I know I can use the search function to narrow it down if this option doesn’t work. #I’ve advertised twice. #Once for no result and another time I was able to sell my mandos. #I appreciate this service. #

I usually only go a couple of pages deep when browsing but I look all the time. #I’m like the kid with no money in a candy store!

I have noticed recently an ad that I had seen a few days ago getting freshly bumped. #I thought it was odd.

People can also utilize their signatures for things they make and promote. #Everyone also has the option to list a homepage as part of their profile where a commercial interest can be expressed.

Those are my thoughts as a frequent browser.

edit- third person in a row to be composing and posting at the same time... Accessories section!
Jamie