Handel Tuner Replacement Options

[Paul Hostetter]

Like this?



Standard electric screwdriver, takes standard hex drywall bit which is gracefully bonded to a beheaded Scotty. This has been my standby for 25 years.

[grandmainger]

Paul, exaclty! As I always tell my students: "Laziness is the mother of invention"
Germain

[Don Grieser]

I just dug out my old Gibson A this weekend, and after cussing the tuning problems I was having, remembered why I wasn't playing it much. I've got some new strings coming in this week. Looks like I'll be taking the tuners apart and doing the big cleaning job on them. Thanks, Paul, for sharing this very valuable information. I hope I can get the screws out that hold the gears on--my first instinct years ago was to tighten them as tight as I could.

Wish I knew now what I didn't know then.

[Don Grieser]

Well, I got one set off and taken apart. Have to get to the big city to pick up the right lube. Mine were amazing clean. The main place where it seems like there's problems are the shafts the tuning knobs are on. That's where they don't turn smoothly. So I hope working some correct lube in there fixes them up. Thanks again, Paul, for sharing your expertise.

[8strings]

.... whilst working on the tuners I discovered another 'trick'. With the shafts and cogs removed I was having problems with one of the tuners. Even though I used my electric drill for a long time, it had this stubborn spot where the shaft would get stuck, release, stuck, release. Finally, I applied metal polish to the gears and within 30-50 turns the polish had turned from white to grey and the gear is now turning super smooth. I then washed everything off with diswashing detergent and applied my Teflon lubricant. Good as new. Will put everything back onto the mandolin tomorrow morning.

[Steve Farling]

Dunlop Turbo Tune Guitar & Bass String winder from First Quality works by hand or in a power screwdriver 7.95. http://www.fqms.com/Dunlop_Turbo_Tun...Bas_P19873.cfm I got mine at a local music store.

[Paul Hostetter]

The Turbotune heads are pretty nice but 1) they have sharp edges that dig into soft buttons and leave indentations, and b) they leave black marks. The Dean Markley version is at least white plastic.



I also wish you could just buy the head and not the handle, but you can't. They are particularly helpful for string basses.

Scottys cost $1 or less.

[DanGore]

If you happen to own an old Gibson mandolin manufactured before WWII, chances are that its tuners either malfunction, have been replaced, or will begin slipping and performing poorly in the time you own the instrument. I #have owned several old Gibsons, and the tuners are invariably the weakest part of the system; otherwise, these instruments were very well made and with care should live long productive lives as good players. I have learned a few things about the tuning machines that Gibson used on its earlier models, and I would like to share some good news: they can be repaired.

I bought a beautiful Gibson 1917 K-4 mandocello for use in our mandolin orchestra. It is complete in all its hardware, including a set of Handel tuners. When the tuners started to slip a month ago, I was determined to repair them. After all, they are only metal and have few moving parts. They have no microprocessor in them, nor any software. A member of our orchestra has his own machine shop, so we set out to fix the slipping C-pitch gear.

We carefully watched the worm-gear and pinion-gear coupling as we rotated the inlaid button. The heavy gauge (0.074 inch) wire formed loose loops around the string post, then began to tighten up. When the Intellitouch registered a low B, the pinion gear moved away from the worm! A loud pop, and the pinion lost the tension from the string. It had slipped. Our theory was that the string post had been pulled away by the string and that the bushing had not stopped the movement.

So we machined a new bushing with tight inside tolerance to prevent the string post from moving. Again, the gears slipped. I examined the worm gear and could see that the pinion gear had shaved metal from the threads of the worm gear. I was at a loss for what to do until an instrument repairman I know advised that I take it to a local jewelry repair shop. I did.

The jeweler employed 18 technicians in the craft of repairing jewelry. They use Bunsen Burners, wire, lasers, magnifying glasses, and lots of hand tools. The lab tech looked at the old Handels and told me his laser could build up the brass threads in the screw with little effort. The next day it was done.

I rushed home during lunch hour and installed the tuning machines. Then the heavy wire. Then the tension. Then they slipped, just like before. Nothing had changed.

Again I watched the two gears as I brought the wire up to tension, and saw the pinion ease away from the worm. This time it occurred to me that the pinion was not moving, but that the worm was. It made sense. There are two bearing posts that hold the tuning shaft and worm gear. The posts are riveted to the base plate which is screwed to the wooden headstock. I could not move the posts with my fingers, but a pair of pliers could. So, the rivets were loose. Back to the jeweler. They told me this job would be even easier than using the laser to rebuild the worm screw. The next day the job was done. They had reinforced the rivets in all 8 of the bearing posts (two for each shaft).

This time the tuners worked. They turn with ease, hold the tension, and look great. The old K4 is complete. Send me an email if you need more info.

-Daniel Gore

[Bill Halsey]

Paul, et. al., this thread is a gold mine of experience and good sense -- very much appreciated! I have lots of tuners to service beyond the usual drop of oil -- never again shall I turn a Handel button without giving them the attention they deserve. Long live the old tuners!

[Palomorado]

sorry to revive the old post but i bought some TriFlow from a local bike shop and it did not have any mention of Teflon. i then looked it up online and it looks like Sherwin Williams now owns it and states that it has a

"petrolium based oil"

i assume that this is bad sign.

plus, does actual silver polish have to be used or would any good metal cleaner work?

[carleshicks]

My Dad's 1925 A-4 Would not stay in tune so he threated to sell it before I could inherit it. So I took it to my shop and completely tore the tuners apart. The main problem was the two A strings and the culpret was loose bearing posts. These bearing post are only peaned flat to secure them so I laid them on a piece of flat plate steel backside up and with a small hammer and punch re peaned the posts. That made them solid agian. Once I cleaned a lubricated everything and put them back together I noticed a few of the tuners had sticky spots, they would turn easily and then they would get hard to turn for a couple of degrees. So I tore them back apart and noticed that the plate where the cog sets was not entirely flat but had a slight raised area from a loose cog screw and the leverage #exerted by the string tension. I took a small piece of key stock and laid it on the back side of the plate an pounded it flat with the punch and hammer. Now they work excellent and my dad is going to keep the old snakehead around a little longer.

[JEStanek]

Palomorado,
You and I may have bought the Tri Flow Superior Lubricant and what Paul showed was Triflow with Teflon. There are multiple Tri Flow products. Hopefully Paul will chime in on any potential mistakes in using the petroleum oil based one...
Jamie