Post a Picture of Your Bowlback (or any others)

[peterk]

Well, gents, some day I'll remove the "Belcanto" plaque, and you will be looking at my mandolin with admiration once the Emburger stamp reveals itself.

[barney 59]

I was watching that Emberger as well and then spaced at the end. I'm actually glad that you got it,maybe even more than if I had. The great lesson here is that there are sometimes deals on ebay --still!-- though I find that it's getting rarer and rarer.

[Martin Veit]

barney, i think, the laugh is, that here in Germany a many bowlback goes into the bay for very low prizes,
where on the other hand the F- and A-Shapes are rare and expensive.
It seems, that in the US it is reverse. Many F- and A-Shapes and low Bowlbacks in the bay.

So - why not make a GMTA = Gentlemans Mandolin Transfer Agreement

well - as you say: Great minds think alike.

[Jim Garber]

It is a buyer/bidder's market on eBay and has been for the last few years with the exception of highly desirable instruments. Martin, in the US bowlbacks have been pretty much ignored and called wall-hangers. In bluegrass circles and even in most other genres, rarely does anyone play one. It is only the last decade or so that players have come to appreciate them duly in a large part to interest and discussion right here on these Cafe forums. During the early days of the 19th century in both Europe and North America there was a great amount of them made. Unfortunately many were low end and there are even dealers out there who do not really distinguish between the quality mandolins and the budget ones.

In any case, I do not think that bowlbacks are revered here and get higher price than in Europe. It is relatively rare to find Emberghers, Calaces or Vinaccias or even other vintage quality bowlbacks over here. They seem to be more in Italy, Germany and the UK. There are people like myself and a few of my esteemed cohorts here who do appreciate and play them but the majority of mandolin players here prefer the more standard F and A models.

[Martin Veit]

Jim, i agree with you.
In my Opinion, it is, because here in Europe esp. in Germany there is a great value
of "zupforchester" aka. mandolin-orchestras. That founds on historical development.
From the ending of the nineteenth century on, there was the "wanderlust movement" or also called the "Naturfreunde".
It was some kind of extraparliamentary opposition.
And these people often came together, doing mandolin-orchestras.
On that, the massmarket have depended.
You can regognize such movements here in germany at each time when people are out of political opression. Most of the mandolinorchestras are foundet in the early 1920s.
From these people, a lot of instruments are now left to their issues.
And 'cause a lot of them don't play mandolin music and often has no roots in music at all, they sell these instruments on ebay without knowlegde about the "real" prize.
So it is possible to purchase a puglisi mandolin for 50€.

For me, it seems, as if in US it may be similar, although there are a lot more F-Shapes and A-Shapes on the market and less bowlbacks.
I think, this is 'cause US Luthiers did more mandolins of that kind.
You have to look to the kind of Folkmusic in the US and in Germany. That are two pairs of shoes
US Folkmusic (Bluegrass and similar kinds of music) as i notice is founded on a lot of celtic folk roots.
Sure, there is although the influence of german Volksmusik which our emigrants had brought with them,
but the fiddle and the mandolin or all the cister kinds are heavy in folk music.
The german Volksmusik or should i say Zupfmusik as is ment as camber music is more based on the classic styled instruments.
Bowlbacks are more filigran alike violins than guitars.
Classic mandolin music imitats more the kind of symphonic music than folk music.

Here in europe, in the last years, the - should i say - international folk music is a rising star.
Bands like mumford an suns for eg. are hot. And on that, a lot of young musicians are in to handmade music.
Unplugged or acoustic is still very attractiv.
Playing the mandolin in folk style is fun. And a lot of these mandolin players are looking for F-Styles or A-Styles.

oh - and please forgive me my very unorthodox kind of grammar. Fingers are sometimes faster than the brain

[Jim Garber]

Martin, you speak (or type) English very well, certainly much better than I speak German (not at all).

One question: please explain this:

Bowlbacks are more filigran alike violins than guitars.

The history of mandolin orchestras is very similar to Germany. I was a member of an orchestra in New York that started around 1924 that still is in existence today and celebrating their 90th anniversary. I believe the Milwaukee Mandolin Orchestra is even older. I just have a feeling tho that classical mandolin is taken more seriously in Germany than here partly due to the work of Marga Wilden-Huesgen who started the modern classical mandolin pedagogy there.

[Martin Veit]

Yepp - what i try to figure out is, that the bowlback mandolins
are builded much filigraner in contrast to the Flatbacks.
More alike the violins for eg.
In my eyes are Flatbacks much more robust.

[Jim Garber]

Do you mean they are built lighter? That is very true of the better bowlbacks. My Emberghers are super-light.

[peterk]

I think Martin is using a German language simile which is not very common in N. American English.......i.e., to be filigree-like.
By that he probably means that bb mandolins appear "dainty" or "delicate" in build compared to some other modern mandolin types.

[Martin Veit]

Peter, didn't i say so ?

Sometimes it's hard in writing english.
Without daily practice, you loose so much auf your skills.
And i won't use a grammarbook or a dictionary everytime.
But it seems as if it is necessary to do so.

Okay, than it has to be more english lecture or so to sharpen the tongue

[Jim Garber]

I thought I understood... I just wanted to make sure. So, Martin V: do you play mandolin and what kinds of music do you play?

[peterk]

Peter, didn't i say so ?

Sometimes it's hard in writing english.
Without daily practice, you loose so much auf your skills.
And i won't use a grammarbook or a dictionary everytime.
But it seems as if it is necessary to do so.

Okay, than it has to be more english lecture or so to sharpen the tongue

No worry, Martin, your written English is excellent. Besides, from the etymology standpoint, your "filigran" makes more sense than English "filigree".

[Martin Veit]

Ouch - anyway.
For me, filigree sounds a bit like a can of dogfood nay, that is pedigree.
But, if i 'd used delicate, thats more like something to eat.
And dainty was out of side. But if 've to learn. So dainty is it!
Like in Dainty Daisy from Gordon Lightfoot. More like fairy or lightly or fluffy....

Holy Shyt,already again the germans with their perfectness!

Thank you all for your understanding. I 'm proud to be in this Kraut uups - crowd

[Jim Garber]

Filigree is not the right word, at least in English:

fil·i·gree
ˈfiləˌgrē/
noun
noun: filigree; plural noun: filigrees; noun: filagree; plural noun: filagrees

1.
ornamental work of fine (typically gold or silver) wire formed into delicate tracery.
"delicate silver filigree earrings"
synonyms: tracery, fretwork, latticework, scrollwork, lacework, quilling

Perhaps you mean lightweight and/or fragile when referring to bowlbacks?

[Martin Veit]

Jim, yes i do.
And it goes in the direction that mandolin-orchestras plays more ethereal like symphonic orchestras (do SO play so?-hmm)
and Bowlbacks are the first choice for MO.
On the other hand, country/folk/bluegrass/whatsever is more down-to-earth
and my sight of it it's often the F-Shaped mandolins.
Its surely a very subjective view.
Anyway - this Thread is about pictures of Bowlbacks and it wasn't my intention
to turn the topic.

[Jim Garber]

I was thinking that we could start another thread in the classical section.

In mandolin orchestras in north America, bowlbacks are still rare. I played one and maybe a small handful of others but most play As or Fs. In Europe I think it is very different.

[Martin Veit]

Jim, that would be my pleasure.
Please start these thread.

[Martin Veit]

I thought I understood... I just wanted to make sure. So, Martin V: do you play mandolin and what kinds of music do you play?

Uups - hadn't seen your question.
Jim, i di play a little bit mandolin, but been more in the "beginners" line.
My first instument is the guitar. But my plan is to go deeper in the mysteries of the little 8-string

What kind of music? Thats very diffucult to say.
First, i 'm nearly 35 years a member of our mandolin orchestra. Therefor i do all these classic style music.
Furthermore, i am a nativ speaking hessian (that means, our regional dialect ?) and du some folkmusic in this dialect.
You can listen her:
http://www.noachteule.de/Noachteule_...uusem_Dorf.mp3
http://www.noachteule.de/noachteule_-_s_lappche.mp3
I do a part of the guitar tracks and the mandolin parts on these songs.
And last, but not least, i like to establish a kind of housemusic here in our small village in the purpose of all these anglosaxon housemusicparties i've heard about

And i like woodworking, so i'm into restauration, esp. guitars an mandolins but only as a hobby.

[Bill Clements]

Hello Martin,
I enjoyed your folk music!

[Martin Veit]

Bill, thank you.
Hard to listen to that dialect? Isn't it?

[peterk]

Those are delightful tunes, Martin.....and the accent I find quite pleasant to my ear although I couldn't understand much of the lyrics themselves.

[Martin Veit]

Someday i will translate them.
But i guess, they will be banned from this Forum.
The second tune tells about ol' grannies household remedies.
It goes about
... don't worry if it hurts
... do it like granny said and take your pee on it,
... and if that don't work,
... take a rag on it

[Jim Garber]

Here's a strange little piccolo bowlback on eBay UK. It almost looks like a toy and it is hard to tell the quality, tho it doesn't look exceptional. Dimensions: 29cm x 9 cm - 11,43 inch x 3.55 inch.

[Martucci]

Here is the latest Martucci. Probably built around 1903. It needed some general cleanup, a top crack repair, and replacement of some missing inlays.

[Tavy]

Wow, you've got to love the workmanship on that - nice mando!