Are there still Loar clone builders

**Larry Simonson** · Jan-13-2006, 4:58pm

Very interesting discussion even for someone who has a 1 in 100 million chance (ie., hitting the lottery) of ever owning a Loar. Now there are a whole bunch of other pricey labels that may inspire forgery, so has anyone seen a fake Gil or Nugget etc?

What would the mandolin business be like if tone was the only criteria of price?

**f5loar** · Jan-13-2006, 6:08pm

No disrespect for the bluegrass picker but a lot of them are still just plain ole downhome country folks(we call them rednecks around here)and the stories that Darryl and I have heard over the past decades about so and so has a Loar are many. You go find this guy only to find it's not even close other than the name at the top. One reason I don't mind playing a Loar out in public is who would be a rednecker like me would actually have one. Too many CE Ward,Dean Clawson,Bob Shure,Dean Span,Garland Shuping and Squirrel Loar copies running around in this area to make a believer out of anyone. I've often wondered if the Carolinas was a hot bed for fake Loars and if other parts of the USA had as many as we got.

**Charlie Derrington** · Jan-13-2006, 7:18pm

I think you're right, Tommy. I believe this area (Nashville and parts East) would have the most. No proof, just a guess. Thank goodness they're so easily identified.

Charlie

**Rob Grant** · Jan-13-2006, 7:50pm

Just curious, but with all this fascination with Loar and Gibson, what are the legal ramifications of just putting "Loar" on the headstock. I realize this doesn't #push the price up, but it does make a historically relevent statement. Has this ever been done, or would this be a violation#under Gibson's copyright?

**f5loar** · Jan-13-2006, 8:26pm

I know someone has already done a "The Loar" at the top inlay. In fact just saw an ad today in VG magazine "The Loar"F5 Weber/Rich Loar $1,999. If that is Bruce Weber and Greg Rich building a Loar copy sounds like a bargin to me!

**johnwilson** · Jan-13-2006, 8:37pm

If you saw the one in Carlsbad, CA, you've seen a cheap copy that niether Greg or Bruce ever laid a hand on...the equivalent of a Korean Vega banjo...

Jan-13-2006, 8:39pm

I hard heard that Greg Rich was assisting a Chinese/Japanese maker these days.

**Tim Saxton** · Jan-13-2006, 8:54pm

Greg Rich is the design consultant behind the "Johnson Carolina" series of guitars. He also was involved with Saga and Blueridge. As I understand he pulled out when they wanted to start using inferior materials etc... both built in China

Tim

**chuck.naill** · Jan-13-2006, 8:57pm

He is at Saga doing inlays for the Morgan/Monroe group, I heard

**banjo1** · Jan-13-2006, 9:29pm

It seems that Weber did a mandolin called "The Loar" as special order only but I think that it is now called a Weber Fern, but I could be wrong.
The mandolin that I have came from the same region but in N.Georgia , a very good Loar type of mandolin but not a copy.
There must have been a lot of builders in the Smokie Mountains.

**f5loar** · Jan-13-2006, 10:02pm

Wow, sounds like Greg Rich the master inlayer/designer is getting around. From the highs of Gibson,Inc. to the lows
of Johnson/Morgan Monroe. Sounds like a fall from grace.

**Big Joe** · Jan-14-2006, 12:10am

Greg is no longer with Saga....he has moved on to Johnson. He is talking about reintroducing the "Loar" mandolin. Don't know if he will, but he told me he was going to. I'll have to ask him when I talk to him again...oh, it has little to do with the original except the name "The Loar".

**Michael Lewis** · Jan-14-2006, 1:54am

Within the last week I saw an advertisement in one of the trade magazines for "The Loar" mandolin. I think it was in Music Trades but haven't been able to find the ad right now. I will look more thouroughly, later maybe.

**Rob Grant** · Jan-14-2006, 4:07am

Michael wrote:"Within the last week I saw an advertisement in one of the trade magazines for 'The Loar' mandolin."

I take it then that Gibson, or anyone else, doesn't have copyright on the phrase "The Loar?"

**Stephanie Reiser** · Jan-14-2006, 5:19am

I dont know why, but for some reason the thought of a mandolin with THE LOAR on the headstock seems 'cheesey' to me; makes me laugh. I would not be caught dead with such an instrument.

**Antlurz** · Jan-14-2006, 6:47am

Originally Posted by (Amanda Lyn @ Jan. 14 2006, 05:19)

I dont know why, but for some reason the thought of a mandolin with THE LOAR on the headstock seems 'cheesey' to me; makes me laugh. I would not be caught dead with such an instrument.

How about if the logo said "Folk Loar"

Ron

**f5loar** · Jan-14-2006, 9:21am

Cheesey you say? Reminds me of those Volkswagon Beetles with the Rolls Royce grill on the front. Now that's cheesey!

**Michael Lewis** · Jan-14-2006, 11:39am

I found the ad in Music Trades. It is from The Music Link Co. and will be at the NAMM show next week at booth 5476.

The use of a well known name can elevate a product if used correctly but usually the use of a great name is for the promotion of a lesser quality item and really cheapens the whole name. Look what happened to the Vega name over the years, and the old Gibson company outsourced Epiphone in the 60s and that brand is now diminished from it's original stature. Even names of the lower quality are being used this way, I saw a Harmony guitar in the Goodwill that was made in China recently.

There are lots of twists and turns in the business world so just be as educated and well prepared as you can. If it is too good to be true . . . . .

**banjo1** · Jan-15-2006, 12:05am

Great advice Michael and that id the law that I have tried to obey all of my adult life.
Thanks

**Tim** · Jan-15-2006, 5:03am

Originally Posted by (f5loar @ Jan. 13 2006, 22:02)

Wow, sounds like Greg Rich the master inlayer/designer is getting around. From the highs of Gibson,Inc. to the lows
of Johnson/Morgan Monroe. #Sounds like a fall from grace.

Doesn't that depend on how much these company pay him versus what he made at Gibson?

**banjo1** · Jan-16-2006, 12:45am

I cant remember how Greg got started in this thread, oh yea Loars.
I like some people, will never get the chance to own a real Loar mandolin but the information that I have learned on this thread alone, will get me ready, should that time ever come.
Thanks

**mandomurph** · Jan-18-2006, 10:19pm

I'm new to this thread. Sounds like there only are two categories of mandolins, the Loars and the Lowers.

**banjo1** · Jan-18-2006, 11:52pm

Considering the price of late, Loars are for sure in the upper dollar figure.
These days there are mandolin in most price ranges though.You do get what you pay for in all aspects.
There are dozens of builders that haing out on the Cafe that will build in all price ranges, from about $1000.oo and up.Most (not all)mandolins under that price are imported and you do have to play a ton of em to get a good one.The American builders in that price range are very underrated, but you do have to start off low price wise till you get a name built up for yourself.Then the price goes up hopefully.
As for Loars and lowers.................the will always be that distinction in all fields.

**Darryl Wolfe** · Jan-20-2006, 2:50pm

'ya know, there are not many people that can tell this "ain't the real thing". The is best looking one I've seen. Great job folks

DMM@Elderly

**banjo1** · Jan-21-2006, 11:29am

I am well out of the investing game but looking for Loars will always be a thing that I will do.If I fine one , it would have to be sold for the sake of the family.
Great thread though and I never dreamed that we would get all this great Lloyd Loar information.

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