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Thread: Griffin Loar A5

  1. #1

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    the back off this mandolin so he could better see how it was constructed and take measurements? I wonder how many Loar's have been analyzed in that manner?
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    Sorry, I don't know the answer to the question posed, but I did have a question about this Loar A-5, so I thought I'd put it here rather than starting a new thread:

    Why is it called the "Griffin" A-5, or the "Ms. Griffith" according to the notes on Darryl Wolfe's Web site?

    Also, I heard that Norman Blake played this instrument on John Hartford's Aereo-plain album? #True? #I know Tut Taylor played dobro on that, so Norman likely would have had access to the instrument, assuming Tut owned it at the time.

    That's two questions, but ...

    Thanks.
    ~ Willieee

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    Registered User Chip Booth's Avatar
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    Willieee, I believe "Ms. Griffith" was the owner when it was discovered. That's all I can add...

    Chip

  4. #4
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Not quite..

    There was a famous player back in the day with a surname of "Griffith" who had an F5 associated with him.. Darryl had it for a while.. this one was custom made for his wife, hence "Mrs. Griffith".

    The story that I've heard is that she oredered an A model because the scroll interfered with her bosom!
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    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    I know of two signed Loar A-5s - the one Tut Taylor owned, which was Mrs. Griffith, and the one I believe Tom Espinola still owns. Are there others?
    .
    ph

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  6. #6
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Paul, there's only one unless you have a different serial number than 74003!

    If you do, I'd like to hear about it
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  7. #7

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    I've been over this mandolin pretty close. I did a partial refret on it a few years ago and there was no sign of it ever having been disassembled. Not to say it hasn't been, but I could see no signs of it. Also, the fact that no one with the exception of Crafters of TN (Mark Taylor made the Prodigal 5) has made a true copy of the instrument. Since Bob Givens didn't make a copy of it, I'd guess he didn't disassemble it either.

    It was quite a suprise when it showed up in my shop. Tut called and asked if I could put a few frets in a mandolin for him and I told him to come on over, not knowing what he was bringing. When I opened that old rectangular F-5 case, I about fell over. Tut rode to SPBGMA with me that year, and he brought the newly released "Aeroplane Outakes" and we listened to it on the way to Nashville while he told stories about the sessions... and the Loar A-5 was in the back seat of my car. I'll never forget that trip.

    Dude

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  9. #8
    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    Seems we went down this same road before a year or so ago about there being 2 A5 Loars. NOT! Not to say another may be out there but it's not surfaced yet.

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    I have a book from Gibson that shows a 10 string (I believe) A style mandola that was owned by Loar but can`t say for sure that he signed it...I posed the question to Darryl but haven`t got an answer, yet...Willie

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    I've seen p[hotos of Loar's 10-string as well. For my money, if Lloyd liked it enough to concertise with it, it don't need no stinkin' signature, y'know what I mean?

    On the other hand, he also had his very own Musical Saw. Makes you wonder.

  12. #11
    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    I worked on that kit, including the ten-string mandola-thang, the electric viola, and the saw. It was not signed.

    .
    ph

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  13. #12

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    so Paul, whats the deal with that violin...since its electric is the bridge elevated off the soundboard or is it a solidbody? It looks weird. Man I'd love to test drive that 8 stringer on the left, you wouldn't know the details on that would ya?
    Jeff
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  14. #13
    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    It's a solidbody, but the pickup is quite different than modern ones, more like a telephone mouthpiece than a magnetic pickup. Rick Turner, my copain here in Santa Cruz, got that one running, as electronics are his specialty. He recently told me, "You know, that instrument is one of the best electric fiddles I've ever heard. It blows away most modern electrics."

    The item on the left is a mandocello built on a guitar body. 24-3/4" scale, narrower neck, tuned CGDA. From my perspective it's a very weird photo because these instruments were assembled for this shoot the day after I got the kit back to the owner. He was attempting to sell the collection to the Smithsonian (they didn't buy). I'd just had the bows rehaired and for some reason it never occurred to anyone to take them out of the little plastic bags for the shoot. A 20-second procedure. Alas, for all posterity, there are those two plastic bags, gleaming away.

    Here's another front shot of it:



    Colors are somewhat distorted.

    Here's young Lloyd playing an entirely different 10-string:

    .
    ph

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    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    I actually got my original tickle on the whole Loar business when Roger Siminoff had the mandoviola + electric viola for sale via mandolin bros. It also appears in catalog shots with Lloyd holding it "at the workbench" etc.

    The mandoviola appears to be the same body as the Tenor Lute, which in turn is to the H5 as the A5 is to the F5. That second photo is from a batch of images Scott uncovered showing Lloyd Loar with Fisher Shipp, his first wife and Chatauqua touring partner. Quite interesting stuff. Lloyd's early carreer appears to have involved touring America with a 3-point Gibson & this 10-string, which I estimated to be a teens model.. We've chatted about "The other 10-string" a few times, wish I could locate it!

    In the not-too-distant past, I played a Sobell 10-string with a 21" scale, which is not dissimilar to the 2 Lloyd ones above. A "Working" 10-string is a rare beast.. most of them compromise a bit either on the bass or treble. I had an original Vega 10-string for a while (now for sale at Intermountain btw) that was quite convincing, though on a mandolin scale the C string felt a hair floppy. I backed a track with it recently, it records wonderfully.

    The idea of the Mandoviola never really caught on, but there have been builders inspired by it at times. I've seen an AL Smart version, a couple of Monteleones, bouzoukis by Steven Owsley Smith (The D'Aquisto of the bouzouki world!), and have played with some interesting hybrids and experimental instruments too.

    Eventually I'm planning to have a 5-string tenor guitar made on approximately a 22" scale, to tune GDAEA. That was my most successful "bouzouki" tuning. Not sure quite how it'd work for other styles of music, but that tuning is a fantastically useful one in the Irish arena. Lots of drones available and chords during the melody.

    As an interesting aside, old-timey music in the tradition with scordatura fiddle setup (DDAD, AEAE, AEAC# etc) sounds ethereal, haunting, and wonderful on those kinds of instruments. Here's a video clip I did a couple years back on DDAD mandolin that sort of shows a bit of what I'm on about- imagine that on a longer scale instrument with more crashing drones & chords..

    midnight on the water

    That's about 5Mb, encoded in divx.. if it doesn't play, grab the free player you can find here:

    divx.com
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  16. #15

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    As I wait for that to download, who's building you 5 stringer or haven't ya decided?
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  17. #16

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    very very nice DaN! mY 10 y.o. watched it with me. Her comment "Dad, did ya see him smile at the end, he's really glad its done". We have been recording some and she,(and I) get a little tense when the tapes on.
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    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Patrick Arbuthnot, who builds resonators as "Chanticleer" on the peghead..

    Heh yes, the try before where I messed something up my wife said "you never smile and you have twitchy lips" so I tried to correct problem 1.. "Mandolin Player's Lip" is incurable, as far as I can tell
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  19. #18

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    Ok I found where I seen that Givens pulled that back off, follow the Greg Boyd link and go to the bottom of the page. it's in the Givens write-up.
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    Registered User Steve Perry's Avatar
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    Nice clip, Dan!... #Question about your right hand. #How are you holding the pick?.. or is that a thumb pick?... Heck, are you even using a pick at all?

    Thanks,

    Steve Perry
    Steve Perry
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    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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  22. #21

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    I wondered the same thing when I seen that thumb flying up! Im glad I see someone who can pick great shakin his fretting hand out during a song, I do that cuz i tend to cramp up and rarley ever see anyone else do it.
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  23. #22

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    So is it glued on...LOL!
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  24. #23

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    nice pick choice. theyre my favorite

    what guage you using? cant quite read backwards. i use a 1.2

    baron



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  25. #24
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    .72mm usually. "paper" to bluegrassers or "granite" to irish players!
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