irish tunes in a bluegrass jam

[adgefan]

Last night at the bluegrass jam I help run, Temperance Reel was played with a distinct Irish feel. I thought I knew this tune rather well, but as I have learned a straight, bluegrass style version I was completely thrown and couldn't join in at all. Even chopping the chords seemed out of place so I gave up.

I was wondering whether it's common practice to play tunes with obvious Irish origin in this way, even in a bluegrass jam? I've learnt Cooley's Reel, Temperance Reel and St Annes Reel as "normal" fiddle tunes accenting the off-beat as I would in any bluegrass tune. Am I going to have to learn how to play them irish style? Or was I right to tell off my fellow jammers for playing irish in a bluegrass jam?

[danb]

Arguably when you play bluegrass tunes you're playing Irish (or Scottish!) tunes American-style

[adgefan]

Of course, but I wouldn't turn up to an Irish session and play Temperance Reel the way I've learnt it. I'd fully expect to be thrown out of the session! I just wondered if my jam-mates were being weird last night (quite likely!) or whether it's common to keep the Irish feel in for some tunes in bluegrass sessions. Probably a stupid question, but I've asked enough of those on here before so why stop now?

[jmcgann]

The best answer might be to listen a bunch to real Irish players to get a sense of how they phrase. Tab won't help you there- it's aural. If you phrase those tunes like an Irish player with a bluegrass rhythm section, there'd be no conflict at all IMHO.

If you play them like a bluegrass player in that setting, there'd be no conflict either.

If you played them bluegrass style in an Irish session:

1) In Ireland, they'd probably love it and have a "Viva La Difference" attitude and buy you a pint. Then they'd ask you to play some solo tunes so they could enjoy your music.

2) In the USA, among Americans who have adopted Irish music, they'd probably scowl at you and smirk, because there are so many smug self-appointed "keepers of the flame" who want to keep the music "pure". You don't find that attitude much in Ireland, ironically.

I like to play Irish music like irish music when I am playing that; and bluegrass like bluegrass when playing that, and etc. There is a lot to be said for doing your research and understanding what makes other styles of music tick. Bela Fleck has said the same- there's no need to play jazz in a bluegrass context if you have a jazz outlet, and vice versa...not to say you can't come up with original hybrids, etc. but I like to try to speak the native languages as best I can when playing traditional styles. YMMV etc.

[adgefan]

Thanks John, that's a very useful response.

I had a bit more of a think about this after posting. I realised the difficulty I had in switching to the different style was not because the tune itself was out of place as I thought at the time, it was that I had a mental block. The melody and chords were identical to how I play it, the only difference was the phrasing. I learnt these tunes from tab and I listen to virtually no Irish music (Tim O'Brien is about my limit) so it was strange to my ear and almost impossible to play along with.

Maybe I'll make it a new year's resolution to try and branch out a bit from bluegrass songs and fiddle tunes. The one thing I know for sure about playing mandolin is I *never* want to be a purist who refuses to play anything other than one style.

[danb]

The one thing I know for sure about playing mandolin is I *never* want to be a purist who refuses to play anything other than one style.

Amen!

As John alludes.. the difference in attitudes once you cross the Atlantic is staggering. I play in a London session quite regularly, and there is no kind of pure-droppism in play at all.

When someone is playing in an idiomatic style that isn't everybody's cup of tea, they tend to listen appreciatively. Usually the person doing that also knows to only do one tune and not take over the jam..

Additionally.. if folks get wind of the fact that you can play in another style, you'll get asked to "play one of those bluegrass tunes".

So y'all come down and have a tune with us sometime

[Bill Van Liere]

adge- you got some good advice from some guys who really know thier stuff. I frequently travel between various styles, here is my take on it. When you boil the tune down to it's basics you are left with simply eighth notes, for example I'm talking reels here. These tunes, (reels) can fit into many styles: Bluegrass, Oldtime, Irish, French Canadian, Texas, etc. When you approach a session/jam in one of these styles and want to join in, it is a matter of adjusting you playing and getting into thier groove. Same notes/chords just a different feel. I usually start out playing simple (leave fancy phrasing out) until you you get into the groove. Trying to play in different styles can be a great learning process and helps to keep life in these old tunes for me.
Ahh,the universal language of fiddle/dance tunes. Enjoy.