removing 1 G string ???

[Syd R.]

HI Folks...

I am a new member to the CBOM family (I also play a Taran mando).

I just recently received a stunning Thomas BUCHANAN[ OM {cedar top/ flame Koa B&S)
and am in heaven!! Gorgeous instrument, rich sound, long sustain and a huge bass. That is where my issue lies....
I love a big bass sound but it's almost too much.

I have a set of slightly smaller G gauge strings on the way (will switch from 54 to 50)
and hope it will help the volume a bit.
BUT... what If I removed ONE of the G strings to further reduce the volume ? Would that work or would it be putting the tension on the instrument out of whack?
Your thoughts

[Joe Bartl]

If I may piggy-back on Syd's question:

Having just gotten serious (within my limitations) about mandocello, I started reading Bickford's method (as edited for bass clef by Benjamin Ash) and came across this (p. 14):

Special Note: Owing to the size of the C strings, better results are often obtained if the outside string is removed, but one being employed.

Additional Special Note: The C string can sometimes sound muddy on even the best instruments. Special care should be taken to develop a stroke that makes the sound even with the other courses. Sometimes that may mean playing the notes a little more gently, or with an upstroke.

Do mandocello players, and by extension OM players, often remove one of the lowest strings?

Thanks for your help.

[John Kelly]

It won't harm your instrument to remove one string and then try it to see if you like the sound balance better. If not, put on the lighter pair or even just put the removed string back on. You can then post again to let others know how you got on.

[NDO]

You could try octave pairs on the G…?

[Jim Imhoff]

No, not often, but yes sometimes; and I have the Bickford book but will need to reread this passage as it surprised me. While not an authority or even a great player on the big MC, I know and communicate with a lot of players both here on the Cafe, in our local group, and in CMSA gatherings. We all deal with the difficulty of the heavy C string (.074 in a standard D'adarrio set). I have seen people adjust fingerings (using the 3rd rather than 4th), try lighter strings (I use .070 C but just ordered a set with .067), micro-adjust the nut and bridge action, and back off on heavier dynamics. But rarely have I seen string removal; other players welcome to chime in and educate me further.

On the other hand, I did speak with a master player (a name you would recognize but might not want this publicized) who told me he removes one string when recording. I would not criticize someone for single-stringing, and I wonder how much my somewhat arthritic fingers will keep improving my technique on doubled low C's. So I guess the pragmatic approach is balancing the beauty and depth of the sound, as well as the "purity" of my hundred and ten year old Gibson K4, with the irritation of frequent unintentional buzz. I'll keep working at that but the day might come when I follow Bickford's advice.

Looking forward to more commentaries here, especially from the many (and much better) players I know.

[musicofanatic]

According to an old-timer from the mandolin orchestra days, "all" (his assignation) mandocello players only used one C string. As concerns the OP and his octave mandolin, it seems really odd to not just try it...??

[margora]

"But rarely have I seen string removal; other players welcome to chime in and educate me further."

"According to an old-timer from the mandolin orchestra days, "all" (his assignation) mandocello players only used one C string."

In fact, this was, indeed, quite common in the early twentieth century US when Bickford wrote his method. Whether or not it is truly necessary from a technique point of view is a different matter (I personally don't think so).

At least in the plucked string (mandolin orchestra) ensemble world, I've not heard of anyone doing this with the mandola in G (a.k.a. octave). It generally wouldn't be necessary or desirable, given the typically short scale of the instruments used typically in such ensembles (e.g. my Alfred Woll has a 450mm scale length, the general range is 420-470mm). American/British celtic instruments are generally quite longer. If the Buchanan instrument has a scale length in the 22-24 inch range, possibly worth experimenting, but I might just restring it using Thomastik's liuto set (expensive, to be sure), discarding (or selling) the C string.

[5Guitars]

As someone who's recently experimented with OM string gauges (albeit with a 21" scale), here's what I'd do:
1) Take off 1 of the .054's, and see how you like it;
2) When you get the .050's, take off the remaining .054 and put both .050's on.
3) Decide which one you like better, 1) or 2).
I'm guessing it will be 2), though you may decide to split the difference and go with a pair of .052's.

[Jim Garber]

I am guessing that the main reason for removing one C-string on a mandocello was that the two of them if picked forcefully would rattle against each other. Of cours proper set up and choice of gauges might remedy that also. Anyway, it was just guessing. I, too, would be interested in what Bickford actually says.

[margora]

"I, too, would be interested in what Bickford actually says."

Bickford, p. 10, of the original publication (or, p. 14 of the Ash Bass Clef version, as mentioned above by Joe Bartle)

"Special Note: Owing to the size of the C strings, better results are often obtained if the outside string is removed, but one being employed."

[Jim Imhoff]

I understand the original post in this thread pertained to the Octave, but the discussion relates to the Mandocello as well, hence the Bickford references.
I don't know how important this point is, but Bickford's string removal advice (p. 10) comes atop a repeated note exercise (quarter, eighth, sixteenth, quasi-tremolo). My greatest frustration with the doubled low C comes with rapid repeated notes and of course tremolo. The busyness (and sometimes buzzyness) of the strings combined with the natural muddiness of the very low pitch can lead to unpleasant tone. August Watters, host of this weekend's Cascadia Mandolin and Guitar Festival and author of Progressive Melodies for Mandocello, suggests that the natural sustain of the larger instrument and its strings does not always need tremolo for longer notes.
One argument FOR single strings comes to my mind when I have to stretch for a note with the fourth finger--say an F# or some 2nd or 3rd position--and my finger lands between the strings, spreading them. I started mandocello very late in life--my 40-year musical career was in choral work--so I hope I have enough years left to master this beast. But I am keeping both strings!

[mandocello8]

no need for our permission to remove a string. it reduces load on the instrument, unlikely to break it. go for it, experiment!

[Syd R.]

no need for our permission to remove a string. it reduces load on the instrument, unlikely to break it. go for it, experiment!

Thankyou for all the advice. I was merely seeking advice, (not permission), from those of you with more OM/mandocello experience.
I have removed one string and do like the balance better. Will let you know when the new strings arrive and I swap them out.
BTW I didn't mention that my Buchanan OM is a 19.6" scale if that matters in this discussion.