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Thread: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

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    Question I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    I just started restringing my mandolin, which has an old-style stamped tailpiece. I got partway through before I realized that I hadn't used the sideways tines for the right-angle turn on the treble strings.

    Does this even matter, or can I just use the eight that point parallel to the strings? Thanks.

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    Gone Fishing Tiderider's Avatar
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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    It makes no difference, lots of folks skip those on purpose.
    Lee Hill

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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    I never use them, either. They seem unnecessary. I've no idea why they're there. I'm sure someone more historically astute will enlighten us. Or attempt to.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    Old Hometown, Cabin Fever String Band

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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    ...I've no idea why they're there...
    Turn in your mandolin player card.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    I always thought there was some good reason for those things as well and used them faithfully (and with the minor annoyance that comes with the strings sometimes getting stuck under the wrong one) until I saw a photo of Marty Stuart's carved up mandolin with the missing tailpiece cover in Fretboard Journal. He (or his tech/string guy) didn't use the side tines, and my light bulb illuminated. I've never used those things since, lol. Actually, all of my mandolins have tailpieces that make string changes even easier and without the sideways tines...
    Chuck

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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Turn in your mandolin player card.
    I think not!

    Funny that the thread cited for an explanation goes back not even two years. Hard to believe this hadn't come up before that. Perhaps it did. It must have, numerous noodly ne'er-do-wells that so many of us are would surely have wondered about this over the years ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob View Post
    Is it OK to string the Gibson style tailpiece like the one on the left. Sure, go ahead if you want to, but you'll be missing just a little of the old-time flavor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ray(T) View Post
    As I said, tradition, but nowadays there’s no need.
    Exactly. Unless someone wants to propose a theory that stringing the old-time way produces a significant old-time sound or some other such improvement, with empirical data and testimonials.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    But more importantly, did Bill do it that way?
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    When those were first used the string loops had a tendency to slip on the plain strings, the extra loop helped with that. These days the winding technology is better and that is not usually a problem. I still use them, it's not a problem or takes any longer to restring.
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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    I've actually had a number of D'A plain string loops slip, right out of the box, and as mentioned, the sideways string hooks do tend to help with that. I'm no longer using that kind of tailpiece though...

    Now that I'm using a James tailpiece, the hooks on these tailpieces seem to pinch the string in 2 places, as such even though I'm still using D'A plain strings, I've not encountered loop slippage on that mandolin anymore.
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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    Well… I took my mandolin to David Harvey for re-fretting. When it came back the two sideways tangs had been used in the re-stringing. I figured if Mr. Harvey did it that way there must be some reason. I have been doing it that way ever since. R/
    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

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    Kelley Mandolins Skip Kelley's Avatar
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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    But more importantly, did Bill do it that way?
    This is the only opinion that matters.

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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    Funny that the thread cited for an explanation goes back not even two years. Hard to believe this hadn't come up before that...
    JB, it's come up dozens of times over the years. I just did a search on the address of link to the frets.com article. It brought back this.

    I'm sure if I search for the image from the article it's up here more times than the url of the article and if I search using a few keywords I'll come up with more.

    Oh, and the historical part is here.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Gibson Hook Design Tailpiece.jpg 
Views:	127 
Size:	263.9 KB 
ID:	207861  
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    JB, it's come up dozens of times over the years.
    I rather suspected as much, the Café being populated by, among other demographic groups, noodly ne'er-do-wells, as some might say.

    The part of this I still don't get is why this was deemed necessary for the unwound strings, but not the wound strings.
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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    I rather suspected as much, the Café being populated by, among other demographic groups, noodly ne'er-do-wells, as some might say.

    The part of this I still don't get is why this was deemed necessary for the unwound strings, but not the wound strings.
    I would venture to guess the winding around the core wire made the loop stronger. The plain strings lack that winding.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    I'll bet you're right. Not sure if I've ever looked that closely at it before, but the winding covers the loop's structure. Thanks.

    Next question: Why is the gap between the sideways hook and the straight-ahead hook on the lower E string so much longer than the other three such, and would that affect the efficaciousness of this endeavor? That second hook is located beyond the loop's winding, thus seeming to have no impinging effect on unravelling.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    Using the extra tine just puts an unneccessary kink in the string.

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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    The extra hooks are obviously a nod to tradition. Use them or don't use them it matters not. I have always used them because I find it fun to work harder when stringing up a mandolin. I've never had a string break at the bend and I've never lost a hook. I've been lucky I guess along with a few thousand other folks for the last hundred plus years. When they invented this tailpiece they obviously had an issue they were attempting to solve. That issue has obviously been resolved in the string manufacturing process in the ensuing years. We accept the nod to traditional body shapes, inlays, bridge designs (including the patent stamp), tuners and everything else about these little out of tune monsters we play, I don't see this as the end of the world if you don't use the side hooks but I do understand why they are still there.
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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    JB the hook doesn't have to be at the winding, but having it anywhere, changes the stress on the loop and puts some stress me on the extra hook.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    Fwiw, in my experience with D'A slipping loops, it has never happened with wound strings, only plain strings.

    We're talking about 6 to 8 strings over the last 11 years. Enough that I've learned how to tie new loops when absolutely necessary.

    The ca. 2016 welded Michael Kelly vertical lug tailpieces are particularly prone to this problem.
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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    Decided to not use the bend when stringing up the Weber right after getting it. Wouldn't you know, one of the D'Addario E strings slipped and broke at the loop. Grabbed a replacement and installed it round the bend and it's held fine.

    Now, the other string isn't having that problem. Definitely a one off and very probably user error. Still nice to have that option.
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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    JB the hook doesn't have to be at the winding, but having it anywhere, changes the stress on the loop and puts some stress me on the extra hook.
    OK ... but the image with explanation in Post #13 specifically mentions the unravelling (that text says "raveling," which was its earlier meaning). I took that to mean that the second hook worked to defeat that by pinching the windings. But upon further and closer , it does seem to emphasize stress relief. So ... yeah, never mind.

    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: I forgot to use the "sideways" tines on the tailpiece - ?

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