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Thread: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

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    Registered User mandolin breeze's Avatar
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    Default Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    A cut from Tommy's new CD "accomplice two"


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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    For the uninituated ' Tommy who ' ?
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    Registered User Bren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Tommy Emmanuel, probably the most highly regarded solo acoustic guitarist today, collaborator with other musicians including a whole album ("Pickin'") with David Grisman. The CGP refers to "Certified Guitar Player" an honorific bestowed on him by Chet Atkins.

    Born Australia, based in Nashville, has toured the UK many times, solo and with Martin Taylor.
    I've seen him here in Aberdeen several times and he's also played Halifax and other places in Yorkshire

    He's very chatty with his audiences and I guess they just think of him as "Tommy".

    He doesn't just do Americana. There a great video of him collaborating with Tony McManus the late piper Gordon Duncan's "Sleeping Tune"
    Bren

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    Registered User mandolin breeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Tommy and David played a good number of shows promoting the CD. I was lucky enough to see them at the Charleston Music Hall, a wonderful venue. Just an incredible show. This video was taken by another lucky attendee.



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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Quote Originally Posted by Bren View Post
    He doesn't just do Americana. There a great video of him collaborating with Tony McManus the late piper Gordon Duncan's "Sleeping Tune"
    Or Gypsy Jazz with Stochelo Rosenberg or straight ahead jazz with Frank Vignola or electric blues and rock and roll with his brother Phil or accompanying Janis Ian on folky stuff or playing pop ballads with Air Supply and other Australian artists or doing an electronic soundscape with his aborigine initiation song or playing Beatles medley's fingerstyle or playing with his hero and mentor Chet Atkins or sounding like a 3 piece combo on Nine Pound Hammer or creating his own original material. I heard him do bluegrass fiddle tune flatpicking with Stephen Bennett at Winfield just to show he could do it.

    As the announcer at Winfield said "He does anything you can do with a guitar and a lot of things you shouldn't." He does not seem to be limited by genre, style or technique. He is one who will legitimately play a genre like gypsy jazz and sound like he belongs there rather than putting his own spin on it.

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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    I'd say most highly regarded is a stretch. He milks the Chet Atkins thing to death and is mostly a fairly flashy player. Grisman is the real super player.

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    Registered User Bren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    "most highly regarded" was a comment on his popularity, not a judgment on his playing, which of course is a matter of personal taste.


    Making a living as a solo guitarist/entertainer must be challenging and there's no doubt he uses all the tricks at his disposal to keep audiences interested but there's a lot more to his playing than that which is why he was in demand as a session musician in Australia before he struck out on his own.
    Bren

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    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    I do think that TE is the most highly regarded acoustic guitarist alive today due to his acessability, his ability and willingness to teach, his multifacetted approach (fingerstyle, flatpick, not bolted down by any genre) and his flashyness.

    I like everything about what I said above but could do with some less flashyness. What keeps me from being an alltime fan is the nervousness that he seems to convey. It is like he will explode anytime soon. If I compare his playing to Martin Taylor or Tony Rice (not the music mind you) I find TEs playing a lot less approachable. It is the same with Joscho Stephan as opposed to Django Reinhardt. But the technique is awesome as is the music until I get nervous too.
    Olaf

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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hanson View Post
    For the uninitiated ' Tommy who ' ?
    Also for the uninitiated, Seven Come Eleven was written by Charlie Christian and Benny Goodman. Credit where it's due...
    "The paths of experimentation twist and turn through mountains of miscalculations, and often lose themselves in error and darkness!"
    --Leslie Daniel, "The Brain That Wouldn't Die."

    Some tunes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa1...SV2qtug/videos

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    Registered User mandolin breeze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    I know just what you mean Olaf, and you express it well. I can see a little different Tommy when he's playing with the Dawg, a little more subdued perhaps, more selective about the notes maybe? The consument pro, blending perfectly with his playing partner. Simply beautiful, the two together - remarkable.



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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    NMC but some good guitar and singing here from the same album.

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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Here are a couple of examples of Tommy playing supportively and matching other players in genres quite outside his normal style, both quite far from the Chet Atkins style. In the first, with Janis Ian he holds back a lot, providing tasteful fills and a solo that complements her song. As she sang Over the Rainbow he let her be the star and did not go into his own fancier arrangement. This video showed me there is a lot more to Tommy than just flash and energy.

    In the second there is a lot of humor and fun from four massively talented players as he trades licks and mimics Bucky Pizzarelli's solo teasingly but respectfully. He shows off but no more than Frank and somewhat less than Bucky.




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    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Quote Originally Posted by mnml View Post
    I'd say most highly regarded is a stretch. He milks the Chet Atkins thing to death and is mostly a fairly flashy player. Grisman is the real super player.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaycat View Post
    Also for the uninitiated, Seven Come Eleven was written by Charlie Christian and Benny Goodman. Credit where it's due...
    So far the comments have been quite interesting to me.

    Frankly, I find Tommy's jazz playing to be more enjoyable than Grisman's. Grisman is a giant of the mandolin and one of the most important players of the instrument - and far "better" than I will ever be.

    But as a native New Orleanian and a jazz player, I hear Grisman's jazz playing as having somewhat of a musical accent, in that his phrasing and sense of swing comes more from the folk, Bluegrass, and "Dawg" music tradition than from the same jazz world as Django and the other Gypsy jazz players, Charlie Christian, Pizzarelli, Jethro Burns, Western Swing style Tiny Moore, even some of the top forum jazz mandolin-playing members, et al.

    I'm sure many of you might disagree - and it's not a bad thing that Grisman's playing sounds like himself and is identifiable as such....but he's not my first choice to listen to for jazz on the mandolin.

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    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    So far the comments have been quite interesting to me.

    Frankly, I find Tommy's jazz playing to be more enjoyable than Grisman's. Grisman is a giant of the mandolin and one of the most important players of the instrument - and far "better" than I will ever be.

    But as a native New Orleanian and a jazz player, I hear Grisman's jazz playing as having somewhat of a musical accent, in that his phrasing and sense of swing comes more from the folk, Bluegrass, and "Dawg" music tradition than from the same jazz world as Django and the other Gypsy jazz players, Charlie Christian, Pizzarelli, Jethro Burns, Western Swing style Tiny Moore, even some of the top forum jazz mandolin-playing members, et al.

    I'm sure many of you might disagree - and it's not a bad thing that Grisman's playing sounds like himself and is identifiable as such....but he's not my first choice to listen to for jazz on the mandolin.
    I find your statement very interesting. When I am listening to DG i want to listen to him play and not to him play a genre. When I listen to "Traversata" (desert island recording by Beppe Gambetta and Carlo Aonzo) I like what DG brings to the table even though his playing does taste like Chicago deep dish pizza as opposed to a classic Neapolitan pizza margherita. Both tasty but with a different background.

    Listening to Jethro, Paul Glasse, Don Stiernberg etc. means listening to a different musical language.

    When I listen to seven come eleven I have a Charlie Christian live track as my listening referrence in my head. I think of the tune as smooth, quick witted and free flowing.

    What I would like to listen to is TE play a really slow version of "Ashokan Farewell" or "Blue Moon", or "Round Midnight" where every note counts and where the spirit of the rendition is relaxed.
    Last edited by grassrootphilosopher; Jun-01-2023 at 4:16am.
    Olaf

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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Quote Originally Posted by grassrootphilosopher View Post
    I find your statement very interesting. When I am listening to DG i want to listen to him play and not to him play a genre. When I listen to "Traversata" (desert island recording by Beppe Gambetta and Carlo Aonzo) I like what DG brings to the table even though his playing does taste like Chicago deep dish pizza as opposed to a classic Neapolitan pizza margherita. Both tasty but with a different background.
    I think we agree - DG is sui generis.

    Off the topic - I really like classic Neapolitan/New York style pizza - not Chicago style so-called "pizza".

    Quote Originally Posted by grassrootphilosopher View Post
    Listening to Jethro, Paul Glasse, Don Stiernberg etc. means listening to a different musical language.
    Yes - and that's the musical language that as a jazz player I definitely prefer....but that's just my own taste.

    Either way Grisman is one of the true greats.

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    Registered User Perry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Quote Originally Posted by mnml View Post
    I'd say most highly regarded is a stretch. He milks the Chet Atkins thing to death and is mostly a fairly flashy player. Grisman is the real super player.
    Sorry couldn’t let this go. Have you ever seen Tommy play live?

    In my opinion his playing is vastly different than Chet’s. Tommy is a musician of the highest caliber and depth. Yes he is the consummate “entertainer” which to you may mean flashy.

    Everybody is entitled to their opinion but yours seems “off”.

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    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    I think we agree - DG is sui generis.

    Off the topic - I really like classic Neapolitan/New York style pizza - not Chicago style so-called "pizza".



    Yes - and that's the musical language that as a jazz player I definitely prefer....but that's just my own taste.

    Either way Grisman is one of the true greats.
    We absolutely agree.

    ... also on the pizza, even though there is the interitalian discourse as to wether a pizza outside of southern Italy (let´s say in Venice) should be considered a real pizza

    ... and on the mandolin jazz language which gets interesting when you think different styles (manouche vs. 40ies vs. modern etc.).
    Olaf

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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Quote Originally Posted by mnml View Post
    I'd say most highly regarded is a stretch. He milks the Chet Atkins thing to death and is mostly a fairly flashy player. Grisman is the real super player.
    Who do you consider to be more "highly regarded" among current acoustic players? As in, liked by more people, and more respected among his peers? Genuinely curious.

  33. #19

    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Quote Originally Posted by grassrootphilosopher View Post
    What I would like to listen to is TE play a really slow version of "Ashokan Farewell" or "Blue Moon", or "Round Midnight" where every note counts and where the spirit of the rendition is relaxed.
    Ask and ye shall receive This came up in my feed today. It is all of that as he does Cold Cold Heart.


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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Juber is better, Huttlinger was before his stroke. There are a number of players who are as well known and as technically proficient. I would even say Molly Tuttle is better and, now, more known. Outside of guitar players, most people have no idea who TE is and quickly get bored of his playing. Same with most flashy instrumental players.. I see him as basically an acoustic shredder who let his flash get in the way of the song. That is where Juber has him beat cold.

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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    Quote Originally Posted by mnml View Post
    Same with most flashy instrumental players.. I see him as basically an acoustic shredder who let his flash get in the way of the song. That is where Juber has him beat cold.
    Well, I guess some of us actually like and appreciate what you call "flash".

    Sorry to disagree with you.

  37. #22
    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    I am somewhat sorry for the fact that this thread turned into a Ricky Skaggs controversy. As many of you may be aware many threads about Ricky Skaggs turn into outspoken criticism against him for ... whatever (him being "preachy" in his concerts, political views, unjustly claiming to be "the" Bill Monroe sucessor, being unprofessional and the list goes on and on).

    Apart from taste, which obviously and justifiedly varies a lot I doubt anyone can disavow Tommy Emanuel´s incredible musical talents. You may call his guitar playing flashy but you cannot deny the talent therein.

    @CarlM: Thanks for the video. As I have watched it I might comment that a slow tempo not necessarily means there is no tension/nervousness. My opinion about TE´s playing style that I call nervous comes from the very baroque way of how he plays. A prime example here is the massive use of the vibrato. It almost seems to burst open the music.

    Again: This is my personal opinion, not trying to minimize TE´s musical talents (think Fritz Kreisler on the violin), just part of my personal taste.
    Olaf

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    Registered User Bren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seven Come Eleven - CGP with Dawg

    I generally appreciate musicians for being what they are, rather than for not being what they aren't.

    I liked David Grisman when he was young and exuberant, and I like him now when he's older, more relaxed and restrained.

    I like Sam Bush too, who also appears on the Accomplice Two album.

    As does Sierra Hull, so there's some top-notch mandolin content on there.

    I think I understand what grassroots philosopher is saying about TE's nervous style (nervous energy, I guess I would say. Give him time to mature. He's only 68)
    It's just part of him and will not appeal to everybody.

    Anyway, here is the Sierra Hull track of Acc2:
    https://youtu.be/qA8NaP8Zjnw
    Bren

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