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Thread: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

  1. #1
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    Default 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    This is only the second one of these I've ever seen for sale: A 1911 F4 with the modern 2-point body shape, but with the Torch and Wire Inlay on the headstock.
    Nice price, but some strange mistakes in the "Product Specs" section, and also a too-good-to-be-true shipping price from Japan.
    Pretty (and free) to look at, though.

    https://reverb.com/item/69069469-gib...ndolin-vintage
    1913 F4, 1914 H1, 1915 A1, 1923 F2, 2007 Jim Rowland F5

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    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    I saw this one yesterday under a different seller here in America! It was also on evilbay and was gone last night from both sites-I smell a scam from Japan!

  3. #3
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    Definitely looks like a scam. New seller on Reverb with no history.

    FWIW, there is also a Collings A model on Reverb with a too good to be true price from Japan. Another seller with no history.
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    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    Several of the mandolins stolen from The Mandolin Store months ago make routine appearances on Reverb under various accounts, have been reported, and continue to show up on a fairly regular basis.

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    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    Yikes! You guys are on top of it. I should know by now to trust my intuition that anything appearing too good to be true almost always is.
    1913 F4, 1914 H1, 1915 A1, 1923 F2, 2007 Jim Rowland F5

  7. #6
    Mandolingerer Bazz Jass's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    Here's a link to the expired listing. Lots of red flags...

    https://reverb.com/item/69069469-gib...YVxvwaplZqsbps

  8. #7
    Kelley Mandolins Skip Kelley's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    The scroll, binding and the top looks wrong to me.

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    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    Looks like some poor soul may have bought it on the Reverb listing in Japan.
    They may have to have a word with the person who bought it the day before from an eBay seller in Florida.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/13457128161...p2047675.l2557
    1913 F4, 1914 H1, 1915 A1, 1923 F2, 2007 Jim Rowland F5

  10. #9
    Mandolingerer Bazz Jass's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    Quote Originally Posted by William Smith View Post
    I saw this one yesterday under a different seller here in America! It was also on evilbay and was gone last night from both sites-I smell a scam from Japan!
    The Ebay listing was legit. Cornerstone Music. That's their carpet in the photos - matches all their other listings and actual shop website listings.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/13457128161...mis&media=COPY

  11. #10

    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    I'm not sure what everyone is seeing wrong with this listing. Please explain.

    Sure, he is a new dealer with no history -- everyone is starts somewhere. Sure, it is listed under Les Paul -- easily explained -- using the same format for several listings and not checking the details, no biggee, IMHO. Low shipping price -- I just sent an electric guitar to Germany for $123, so doesn't seem too strange to me for a mandolin, shipped with no insurance, of course. Some dealers often eat part of the shipping cost to make the deal more enticing -- a form of salesmanship. The mandolin looks really nice to me, but I'll admit to not knowing all the fine details of that model.

    I should add, vast amounts of vintage instruments have been going to Japan for 30+ years and they have a stockpile. Some of these instruments were purchased as the "nicest of the nicest" by buyers for the Japanese market. Over the years, some of these instruments have hung in showrooms year after year with no sales. I have noticed on eBay and Reverb these instruments have been offered back to buyers in the USA with attractive prices and shipping costs. NFI.

  12. #11
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    I lived in Japan for several years. It is common for a seller to list items that they don't actually own, but are listed under another seller for a lesser price. You buy from seller #2 for an elevated price, they purchase it from seller #1 & ship it to you. Both sellers make a profit and it is considered reasonable business practices.

    The blonde 1913 for sale at the Guitar Center here in town is not a torch and wire, but it is a pretty cool example from that period. It was wandering around the Carolina Guitar show for a few hours before they bought it.
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  13. #12
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazz Jass View Post
    The Ebay listing was legit. Cornerstone Music. That's their carpet in the photos - matches all their other listings and actual shop website listings.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/13457128161...mis&media=COPY
    Yes I know the cornerstone listing on reverb and evilbay was legit, it was gone then resurfaced from the Japanese seller hours later. "I smell a scam from Japan"!

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  15. #13
    Mandolingerer Bazz Jass's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    I'm not sure what everyone is seeing wrong with this listing. Please explain.

    Sure, he is a new dealer with no history -- everyone is starts somewhere. Sure, it is listed under Les Paul -- easily explained -- using the same format for several listings and not checking the details, no biggee, IMHO. Low shipping price -- I just sent an electric guitar to Germany for $123, so doesn't seem too strange to me for a mandolin, shipped with no insurance, of course. Some dealers often eat part of the shipping cost to make the deal more enticing -- a form of salesmanship. The mandolin looks really nice to me, but I'll admit to not knowing all the fine details of that model.

    I should add, vast amounts of vintage instruments have been going to Japan for 30+ years and they have a stockpile. Some of these instruments were purchased as the "nicest of the nicest" by buyers for the Japanese market. Over the years, some of these instruments have hung in showrooms year after year with no sales. I have noticed on eBay and Reverb these instruments have been offered back to buyers in the USA with attractive prices and shipping costs. NFI.
    This mandolin was literally sold the day before by a reputable US company. The text and photos from their ad were copied verbatim into the Japanese listing.

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  17. #14
    Mandolingerer Bazz Jass's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    Quote Originally Posted by William Smith View Post
    Yes I know the cornerstone listing on reverb and evilbay was legit, it was gone then resurfaced from the Japanese seller hours later. "I smell a scam from Japan"!
    Right The Ebay listing shows a "best offer accepted" so that'll be why it disappeared. Just opportunist of the Japan scammer to grab the auction photos and details.

  18. #15

    Default Re: 1911 2-point F4 with a Torch and Wire Inlay

    Got it. Makes sense. Instrument is legit. Hijacked listing.

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