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Thread: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

  1. #1
    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    Anyone with experience with tube preamps recording electric mando direct? I’m looking for a 40’s Charlie Christian, Jr Bernard, Tiny Moore (on the Tiffany’s) type sound. Don’t like recording through an amp as it is too noisy for my tastes.

    I’m getting a pretty good sound through solid state pres but don’t have experience with tube pres and want to try some. All being equal of course, prefer lower $ but will pay if that is needed.

    Any suggestions are much appreciated. Thanks!
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    While I have not (yet) recorded e-mando, for guitars, personally, I’ve given up on real tubes (noise, consistency/quality/cost) and find that good amp sims can work just fine. You can add as much noise as you want, or not!

    You can still play and monitor, even record, your amp if that’s a sound/feel you need to track, and mix that in too if it serves your aims.

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    Registered User stevo58's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    If you are using a DAW it might be cheaper to try VST (or whatever) plugins first. Digital modeling has gotten pretty darn good. There are plenty of mic preamp plugins out there, free and not free. I stopped using real tube guitar amps when IK came out with their Fender sims. The difference just wasn’t worth the hassle, and I can instantly swap out a Twin for a 5b6 (or whatever) if I want. I also have the Waves AbbeyRoad plugins. Now I sound just like The Beatles, whenever I want. No, really.

    If you buy hardware, be wary. Anything affordable with a tube in it is just using it as decoration, putting maybe a couple dozen volts through it, which is nothing. Tube preamps need high DC voltage, which means big heavy transformers, which means money. Although there may be some new things out there using digital switching power supplies, I don’t know
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    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    I have tried LOTS of amp sims. Have yet to find one that gets the sound I’m after.
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    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    Amp simulations are too prepackaged for me. I use a mixture of pre-EQ, compression, software distortion, and post-EQ for a recording. The basic AIR distortion in the home version of ProTools is very flexible, with tone, level, mix, options, along with type of distortion. Audacity has many choices.

    A recent album, taken from a live video set, was entirely direct from my solid-state distortion pedal, using the mix fixes.

    After another recent studio project, I was looking to better match the above combination, and spent some time with a compressor pedal in front of the distortion, looking for a smooth, slightly overdriven tone. I was surprised to discover this pedal, MXR's SuperComp, will distort pleasingly, with a certain setting. Only slight compression, but enough to allow easily changing from mainly clean, with only peaks clipped, to substantial overdrive distortion, without audible level changing a lot.

    Unlike my distortion pedal (AnalogMan King of Tone), this pedal does not boost the midrange, which I have to chop when using the distortion pedal.

    Next project will be with that setup. No EQ needed, musical compression built in. Amp set basically flat sounds sweet and rich.
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    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    Synergy tldx specs seem interesting. You probably know of them.
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    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    No tube pre suggestions?
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    Registered User Tom Haywood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    I have an older base model ART Tube MP Studio pre-amp that I bought used from a friend who used it for electronic cello performance and recording. I have used it only with a Martin D18V in live settings. I really like the sound that tube produces. Haven't tried it with a mandolin or with recording yet, so I can't really recommend it to you for that. Surprisingly inexpensive. Sweetwater has an updated version for 145.00.
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    Registered User stevo58's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    The ART is a good example of what I mentioned earlier. It’s a solid state preamp with a tube run in ‘starved plate’ mode (low voltage). The tube is used to add a bit of distortion to a solid state preamp. The specs on the ART web site are suspicious - it’s claiming a gain of 70 from a 12ax7, and under ideal conditions and high voltages you can get maybe 59 from a 12ax7. It’s a solid state preamp with a tube effect, and is fine, but it is not a “tube preamp.” This may be exactly what you are looking for. But a “tube preamp” would be something like the UAD Solo 610, which will cost you well north of $1000, and is one of the less expensive ones. The Warm Audio WA-MPX is another, and at under $1000 is the cheapest real tube preamp I found after a quick search. Everything else cheaper I saw is solid state with a starved-plate tube used as an effect.


    This is what a tube preamp looks like. Notice multiple tubes and big heavy transformers (transformers = weight = money):

    http://gyraf.dk/gy_pd/g9/g9pd.htm

    You could also try some other SS preamps, like the FMR “Really Nice Preamp.”
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    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    I used to have an ART pro MPA 2, it had a high voltage option, and if I remember, it had lots of available gain and tube distortion. It had two tubes, and was pretty easy to swap out.
    I’ve also used the art mini pre, and the presounus tube pre, and they did little to shape the sound.
    The mpa2 is a rack mount pre, but is still kinda hobby grade.
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    working musician Jim Bevan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    I once tried using a rack-mounted Chandler Tube Driver as a recording preamp – the distortion was unusably harsh, and certainly not what you're looking for.

    My feeling is that any level of tube distortion, even low-key "warmth", needs the typical amp lo-fi speaker to round off the in-your-face peaks. Imagine how ugly even a warm only-slightly-overdriven Fender head into a decent two- or three-way hi-fi studio monitor would sound.
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    Registered User Mark Seale's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    Pete -

    For a longtime I used the relatively cheap Presonus TubePre. It's a solid state -> tube stage setup that is surprisingly good considering the cost. I used it live and in recording for fiddle, I didn't try it with an e-mando, but I suspect it would work pretty well.

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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    I’ve used the Presonus Tube pre but only in live situations. Only you would know whether it will deliver the sound you’re after; they’re not too expensive, and probably would fall into Stevo’s description/category.
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    I’m fond of the ADL 600 (Presonus/Anthony DiMaria Labs)
    http://www.anthonydemarialabs.com/pr...rview-600.html

    It’s got a bunch of clean gain and it’s a really solid build.

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    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    Found what I was looking for in a United Audio 610 solo

    https://www.uaudio.com/hardware/mic-.../solo-610.html

    Thanks to all for your suggestions!
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    Registered User stevo58's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    Good choice. That’s a piece of gear for the long term.
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    I think the ART Pro MPA 2 is decent. I like the art voice channel a tad more for vocals, but that’s not “tube.” If you want real tube preamps, you’d be better off saving for a used UA LA610 ….that’s leaps and bounds better sounding, but super pricey.

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    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tube preamp for direct e mando recording?

    I also picked up an Art Studio V3 Tube MP and it is decent, though definitely not the UA 610. Will use the Art as a tube in front of my amp on live gigs.

    I also found the 610 on Craigslist for a screaming GREAT price. Also has had the tubes replaced with NOS tubes so I got double lucky. The 610 is definitely a keeper.
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