Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
Hora M1088 Mandola.....
Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909
Are there not search engines today that can search images online? How to get the use of one such?
Google Lens didn’t find her, or that same scratchplate outline. The photo, IMHO, was studio quality, not a Brownie snapshot.
Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
Hora M1088 Mandola.....
Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909
I know he played uke, but kinda looks like Tiny Tim!
is that a tulip?
I've seen a few of those on mandolins made in Catania. Different women. Just models of that time, I guess. Just like those on numerous "ladies with mandolins" postcards.
Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
Hora M1088 Mandola.....
Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909
What was the point of three course mandolins?
The triangular 3 course instrument in the above photo is not a mandolin. It is a balalaika, an instrument of Russian origin. It is common for them to have 3 courses. Balalaikas with single strung courses are more common than those with double strung courses.
I meant on the original poster's mandriola. I wonder why they built it with the 4 sets of 3 strings, a love of tuning?
Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
Hora M1088 Mandola.....
Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909
Last edited by EdHanrahan; Apr-28-2023 at 11:09am.
- Ed
"Then one day we weren't as young as before
Our mistakes weren't quite so easy to undo
But by all those roads, my friend, we've travelled down
I'm a better man for just the knowin' of you."
- Ian Tyson
Three course / 12 string mandolins were very popular in Sicily. I've heard them referred to as "Sicilian Mandolins" here.. though that can be confusing with the many wonderful 8 string bowlbacks made on the island.
Oscar Schmidt, in the US, made quite a number of 12 string 3 course mandolins for sale in the US.
Why three courses? Maybe to add to the 'shimmering sound' of the Italian mandolin?
Maybe after some of the same sonic chiming spirit as the multi stringed chitarra battente?
David B might have a better take on the whole subject.
I've only played a 12 string bowlback a few times. I found it to be considerably more work to get going with.
More to tune, sure, but I don't think I ever got my tremolo up to where I really enjoyed it with the triple courses.
But it was only around for a brief period.
FWIW these portrait pickguards remind me of the small b+w photos / of the deceased one sees on old rural Italian tombstones.
A little unsettling on reference on a mandolin.
Probably from stock photos as Victor suggests. Not too different from what is available today.
Mick
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
______________________
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Mandolin is the Italian word for Out of Tune. Mandriola is the Italian word for Really Really Out of Tune.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
I'm still restoring it, so haven't played it yet but I had a Martin 12 string 4 course ukulele called a Tiple, with some of the strings an octave form the other and it was horrible to intonate. It couldn't really be done, so I tuned the loose strings a bit under, then the fretted strings would be a bit over but it was also very difficult to fret, because when the thick string was fretted the two thin strings were not.
It did have a fantastic sound but the monetary value was much higher than the musical, so I sold it again.
Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
Hora M1088 Mandola.....
Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909
An old quote from Red Rector to an aspiring young professional:
"If you're going to be a mandolin player, there's two things you need to know. The first is that you're never going to make any money, and the other is that you're never going to be in tune."
Jim
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19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
I'm not sure about the need for triple courses of the same gauge strings.
I have also seen a few mandolin-tuned instruments like what we sold when I worked for Lark in the Morning as a "tricordia" which had triple courses, tuned in octaves from the factory:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricordia
We got them from Paracho, Mexico. They too were not easy to keep in tune!
Yes, the metal strung double course balalaikas are not considered Andreyev system instruments, they are more folkloric and possibly more Ukrainian.
http://horsehints.org/RussiaBalalaika.htm
"The most common solo instrument is the prima, tuned E-E-A (the two lower strings being tuned to the same pitch). Sometimes the balalaika is tuned "guitar style" to G-B-D (mimicking the three highest strings of the Russian guitar), making it easier to play for Russian guitar players, although balalaika purists frown on this tuning."
"Factory made six string prima-balalaikas with three sets of double courses are also common and popular, particularly in Ukraine. These instruments have three double courses similar to the stringing of the mandolin and use a "guitar" tuning."
Most prima balalaikas have a metal A string and 2 nylon E strings, often slightly offset to allow for certain picking techniques on the high A and for use of the thumb around the neck on the E courses. That size is also played with the bare fingers, not a pick like the larger size balalaikas.
Back to the portraits....are the flowers hand-tinted like a lot of the photos of the time period?
Correct , the Tiple was 10 strings but even a compensated bridge wouldn't help. If you tuned the loose string, then the all the fretted strings would be too high. If you tuned the fretted the loose strings was too low. This was on all the thicker/low strings while the high strings were ok at the same time!!
Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
Hora M1088 Mandola.....
Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909
That's what happens when one tries to use 2 different gauge strings on the same bridge saddle. Perhaps a very clever luthier could make a bridge with saddles that compensate for the thick and thin strings in each course, but that certainly wasn't being done by older tiple makers.
Here's an idea that a luthier came up with for 12 string guitars:
Of course the problem is worse when on some mandriolas, tricordias and tiples the triple courses had the thick string in the middle!
Yamaha’s piano pages have a concise discussion of the (mostly) triple strings in that instrument: volume plus slight tuning differences that enrich the sound, with samples. I have two Schmidt mandriolas, and the sound is audibly different, and to my uneducated ears, pretty good. So if triple strings were evolved in piano technology, players and listeners appreciated it. Of course, a mandolin doesn’t sport a cast iron structure, so it has to be pretty sturdy for this to work, and still produce sound. Along those lines, I’ve wondered if mando virtuosos do consciously tune each string with an offset or differential to get the sound they like best.`
And back to the portrait: yes, a hand-tinted B&W print. These are durable enough to last the century, at least. Might be overcoated for protection. Was also thinking that a degraded scratch plate inlay not worth the (probably) large cost to reproduce by hand, might be worth replacing with a photo in a restoration.
I have a Puglisi with only half a turtle pick guard but have bought a rather well looking modern substitute
But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller
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