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Thread: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

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    Likes quaint instruments poul hansen's Avatar
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    Default Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    I have this very cute mandriola with a portait and was told it is of the luthiers or owners wife but I think it's more probable of an actress or singer of the time. Any ideas?

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    Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
    Hora M1088 Mandola.....
    Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
    Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
    Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
    3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
    1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
    Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
    Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909

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    Pataphysician Joe Bartl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Are there not search engines today that can search images online? How to get the use of one such?

  4. #3

    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Google Lens didn’t find her, or that same scratchplate outline. The photo, IMHO, was studio quality, not a Brownie snapshot.

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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bartl View Post
    Are there not search engines today that can search images online? How to get the use of one such?
    Hehe Google finds Pictures with mandolins and ChatGPT wasn't any help either. I have only seen one with a totally different plate and portrait.
    Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
    Hora M1088 Mandola.....
    Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
    Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
    Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
    3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
    1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
    Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
    Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909

  6. #5

    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    I know he played uke, but kinda looks like Tiny Tim!

    is that a tulip?

  7. #6

    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    I've seen a few of those on mandolins made in Catania. Different women. Just models of that time, I guess. Just like those on numerous "ladies with mandolins" postcards.

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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Quote Originally Posted by vic-victor View Post
    I've seen a few of those on mandolins made in Catania. Different women. Just models of that time, I guess. Just like those on numerous "ladies with mandolins" postcards.
    Any idea where?
    Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
    Hora M1088 Mandola.....
    Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
    Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
    Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
    3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
    1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
    Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
    Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909

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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    They pop up for sale on ebay and other sites from time to time

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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    What was the point of three course mandolins?

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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    The triangular 3 course instrument in the above photo is not a mandolin. It is a balalaika, an instrument of Russian origin. It is common for them to have 3 courses. Balalaikas with single strung courses are more common than those with double strung courses.

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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    I meant on the original poster's mandriola. I wonder why they built it with the 4 sets of 3 strings, a love of tuning?

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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric L View Post
    I meant on the original poster's mandriola. I wonder why they built it with the 4 sets of 3 strings, a love of tuning?
    That is what makes it a Mandriola and not a mandolin. It's for the sound, just as 6 or 12 string guitar and ukulele or Taropatch or Tiple etc.
    Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
    Hora M1088 Mandola.....
    Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
    Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
    Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
    3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
    1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
    Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
    Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909

  18. #13
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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric L View Post
    What was the point of three course mandolins?
    Some masochist believed that tuning 2-string courses had become, ya know, just too darn easy!
    Last edited by EdHanrahan; Apr-28-2023 at 11:09am.
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    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Three course / 12 string mandolins were very popular in Sicily. I've heard them referred to as "Sicilian Mandolins" here.. though that can be confusing with the many wonderful 8 string bowlbacks made on the island.

    Oscar Schmidt, in the US, made quite a number of 12 string 3 course mandolins for sale in the US.

    Why three courses? Maybe to add to the 'shimmering sound' of the Italian mandolin?

    Maybe after some of the same sonic chiming spirit as the multi stringed chitarra battente?

    David B might have a better take on the whole subject.


    I've only played a 12 string bowlback a few times. I found it to be considerably more work to get going with.

    More to tune, sure, but I don't think I ever got my tremolo up to where I really enjoyed it with the triple courses.

    But it was only around for a brief period.

    FWIW these portrait pickguards remind me of the small b+w photos / of the deceased one sees on old rural Italian tombstones.

    A little unsettling on reference on a mandolin.

    Probably from stock photos as Victor suggests. Not too different from what is available today.

    Mick
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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Mandolin is the Italian word for Out of Tune. Mandriola is the Italian word for Really Really Out of Tune.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Mandolin is the Italian word for Out of Tune. Mandriola is the Italian word for Really Really Out of Tune.
    I'm still restoring it, so haven't played it yet but I had a Martin 12 string 4 course ukulele called a Tiple, with some of the strings an octave form the other and it was horrible to intonate. It couldn't really be done, so I tuned the loose strings a bit under, then the fretted strings would be a bit over but it was also very difficult to fret, because when the thick string was fretted the two thin strings were not.
    It did have a fantastic sound but the monetary value was much higher than the musical, so I sold it again.
    Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
    Hora M1088 Mandola.....
    Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
    Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
    Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
    3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
    1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
    Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
    Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909

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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    An old quote from Red Rector to an aspiring young professional:

    "If you're going to be a mandolin player, there's two things you need to know. The first is that you're never going to make any money, and the other is that you're never going to be in tune."

  25. #18
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Quote Originally Posted by poul hansen View Post
    I'm still restoring it, so haven't played it yet but I had a Martin 12 string 4 course ukulele called a Tiple, with some of the strings an octave form the other and it was horrible to intonate. It couldn't really be done, so I tuned the loose strings a bit under, then the fretted strings would be a bit over but it was also very difficult to fret, because when the thick string was fretted the two thin strings were not.
    It did have a fantastic sound but the monetary value was much higher than the musical, so I sold it again.
    Martin triples were 10-string but they are notorious for being always out of tune. They have a non-compensated bridge. In fact I think their fans pay more the more they can be out of tune.
    Jim

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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    T

    Why three courses? Maybe to add to the 'shimmering sound' of the Italian mandolin?

    Maybe after some of the same sonic chiming spirit as the multi stringed chitarra battente?

    David B might have a better take on the whole subject.


    Mick
    I'm not sure about the need for triple courses of the same gauge strings.

    I have also seen a few mandolin-tuned instruments like what we sold when I worked for Lark in the Morning as a "tricordia" which had triple courses, tuned in octaves from the factory:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricordia

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    We got them from Paracho, Mexico. They too were not easy to keep in tune!


    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    The triangular 3 course instrument in the above photo is not a mandolin. It is a balalaika, an instrument of Russian origin. It is common for them to have 3 courses. Balalaikas with single strung courses are more common than those with double strung courses.
    Yes, the metal strung double course balalaikas are not considered Andreyev system instruments, they are more folkloric and possibly more Ukrainian.

    http://horsehints.org/RussiaBalalaika.htm

    "The most common solo instrument is the prima, tuned E-E-A (the two lower strings being tuned to the same pitch). Sometimes the balalaika is tuned "guitar style" to G-B-D (mimicking the three highest strings of the Russian guitar), making it easier to play for Russian guitar players, although balalaika purists frown on this tuning."

    "Factory made six string prima-balalaikas with three sets of double courses are also common and popular, particularly in Ukraine. These instruments have three double courses similar to the stringing of the mandolin and use a "guitar" tuning."

    Most prima balalaikas have a metal A string and 2 nylon E strings, often slightly offset to allow for certain picking techniques on the high A and for use of the thumb around the neck on the E courses. That size is also played with the bare fingers, not a pick like the larger size balalaikas.

    Back to the portraits....are the flowers hand-tinted like a lot of the photos of the time period?

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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Martin triples were 10-string but they are notorious for being always out of tune. They have a non-compensated bridge. In fact I think their fans pay more the more they can be out of tune.
    Correct , the Tiple was 10 strings but even a compensated bridge wouldn't help. If you tuned the loose string, then the all the fretted strings would be too high. If you tuned the fretted the loose strings was too low. This was on all the thicker/low strings while the high strings were ok at the same time!!
    Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
    Hora M1088 Mandola.....
    Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
    Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
    Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
    3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
    1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
    Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
    Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909

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    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Quote Originally Posted by poul hansen View Post
    Correct , the Tiple was 10 strings but even a compensated bridge wouldn't help. If you tuned the loose string, then the all the fretted strings would be too high. If you tuned the fretted the loose strings was too low. This was on all the thicker/low strings while the high strings were ok at the same time!!
    That's what happens when one tries to use 2 different gauge strings on the same bridge saddle. Perhaps a very clever luthier could make a bridge with saddles that compensate for the thick and thin strings in each course, but that certainly wasn't being done by older tiple makers.

    Here's an idea that a luthier came up with for 12 string guitars:

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    Of course the problem is worse when on some mandriolas, tricordias and tiples the triple courses had the thick string in the middle!

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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    Yamaha’s piano pages have a concise discussion of the (mostly) triple strings in that instrument: volume plus slight tuning differences that enrich the sound, with samples. I have two Schmidt mandriolas, and the sound is audibly different, and to my uneducated ears, pretty good. So if triple strings were evolved in piano technology, players and listeners appreciated it. Of course, a mandolin doesn’t sport a cast iron structure, so it has to be pretty sturdy for this to work, and still produce sound. Along those lines, I’ve wondered if mando virtuosos do consciously tune each string with an offset or differential to get the sound they like best.`
    And back to the portrait: yes, a hand-tinted B&W print. These are durable enough to last the century, at least. Might be overcoated for protection. Was also thinking that a degraded scratch plate inlay not worth the (probably) large cost to reproduce by hand, might be worth replacing with a photo in a restoration.

  33. #23
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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    I have a Puglisi with only half a turtle pick guard but have bought a rather well looking modern substitute

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    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    I can't answer the OP's question, but I'd sure recognize this one here: Click image for larger version. 

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  35. #25
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    Default Re: Any mandolin with a portrait on the pickguard?

    OHG!

    As to the OP's question, I thought at firwt it might have been Jenny Lind, who created quite a stir back in the late 19th century, partly due to her reputed glorious voice, partly due to PT Barnum's relentless promotion of her tour of the US. But it is not.

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