Epifanes

[Shawn4390]

Has anyone applied epifanes with a brush? Any advice? I usually use truoil and I’ve been very happy with it. It is very time consuming. I’ve yet to get my spray room set up and I thought about trying epifanes with a brush but I sure could use some advice. Thanks.

[Will Kimble]

I don’t use Epifanes but I can tell you the brush is important. I use a 3/4” Kolinsky Sable brush. I will post a pic if I can figure out how…

[Shawn4390]

I don’t use Epifanes but I can tell you the brush is important. I use a 3/4” Kolinsky Sable brush. I will post a pic if I can figure out how…

Thank you, Will.

[HoGo]

Red sable brush is a bit overkill for clear oil varnish, thay are mostly prized for fine retouching in violin restoration.
I don't use Epifanes but very similar oil varnish of local producer and general rule is that stiffer varnish requires stiffer brush.
I prefer brushing varnish quite thick (right from the can) and I've used good quality natural bristle (hog or badger?) or synthetic brushes around 1" wide with good success.
On some brushes I trimmed the hair a tiny bit with flat chisel to perfect straight line and brushing back and forth on fine sandpaper (400+ grit) produced very fine but stiff tip.
I once borrowed cheap IKEA flat brush from my kids' set and found out it works great as well for oil varnish, pretty much preforms indistinguishable from the expensive brushes so I kept it in my arsenal (and borrowed few more from kids). Modern artificial bristles are much better than decade(s) ago so there's no more real need for endangered species fur (like Kolinsky sable).
I've seen a nice video on YT of a guy varnishing a chest with epifanes (or similar varnish) that was really good and his application was perfectly smooth right off the brush. Instruments are a bit harder but it's worht seeing. Look there...

[sliebers]

I used to brush it with a good quality artist brush like Will uses. I now spray it with a v-fan airbrush mixed with epifanes thinner and accelerator to speed up drying time. With the v-fan sprayer, I'm able to spray thin, even coats. The last coat I buff out by hand to a high gloss and I'm done.

[Dave Richard]

Which type of Epihanes are you all using? I'm familiar with one type for furniture use(Woodfinish Matte, sprayed), but would like to know the best one to use for instruments.

[Jeff Mando]

Modern artificial bristles are much better than decade(s) ago so there's no more real need for endangered species fur (like Kolinsky sable).

Just had a flashback of Joe Namath's full length fur coat on the sidelines...

[sliebers]

Which type of Epihanes are you all using? I'm familiar with one type for furniture use(Woodfinish Matte, sprayed), but would like to know the best one to use for instruments.

Epifanes Clear High-Gloss Marine Varnish. You can usually find a deal on Amazon.

[amowry]

I haven't had great results brushing Epifanes except on small parts-- it starts to stiffen up pretty fast and it's difficult to get brush marks out. It sprays beautifully, though. Brushing is definitely possible, bur other varnishes might be easier.

[sliebers]

I haven't had great results brushing Epifanes except on small parts-- it starts to stiffen up pretty fast and it's difficult to get brush marks out. It sprays beautifully, though. Brushing is definitely possible, bur other varnishes might be easier.

Their brushing thinner makes a difference, but it sprays so well I abandoned the brush method years ago.

[sunburst]

I'm currently using Epifanes Clear High-Gloss Marine Varnish. They offer another similar varnish with a bit less UV blocker, which would be fine for instruments (which don't spend nearly as much time in the sun as most boats!) and I considered trying it last time I bought varnish, but it is more expensive and I've been getting good results with what I'm using, so I did not try the other varnish.

I've said this before but I'll say it again:
I said to myself; "self, your pretty good with a spray gun but not so hot with a brush" so I haven't tried brushing the varnish but instead spray it with my usual finish gun ($30+ Harbor Freight currently).
I thin for spraying with lacquer thinner. The thinner/reducer available from Epifanes, or mineral spirits, helps considerably with flow out and leveling of brush marks, but it seriously increases the chances of runs and sags when spraying. Lacquer thinner evaporates much faster so runs and sags are not a problem.

I've been top-coating with Truoil and have not tried buffing the varnish itself, but I'm confident that it would work fine because of the look of the surface after preparing for TO. That is, sanded to 1500 grit.

The Epifanes product is good, and as is obvious from this discussion there are many ways to apply it, so once again results come down to the skill of the finisher.

As for material savings using a brush as opposed to spraying, that is a "nonissue" for me because I varnish only a portion of the instruments that I finish and I nearly never use up even the smallest can of varnish before some is wasted from curing in the container. (No, I haven't tried "bloxygen".)

[sliebers]

As for material savings using a brush as opposed to spraying, that is a "nonissue" for me because I varnish only a portion of the instruments that I finish and I nearly never use up even the smallest can of varnish before some is wasted from curing in the container. (No, I haven't tried "bloxygen".)

I never use a whole can before it dries up either. I tried bloxygen once. I found better results decanting into small mason jars until there's only a small air gap. I then vacuum seal the jar in a plastic food sealer bag. Buys me another 6 months typically.

[sliebers]

This is Epifanes sprayed and final coat buffed out to gloss.

[tree]

This is what I use to store oil and varnish finishes, from Lee Valley, same principle as box wine bladder. NFI

[Will Kimble]

Ooh, thanks tree!

[sunburst]

This is what I use to store oil and varnish finishes, from Lee Valley, same principle as box wine bladder. NFI

Looks like something I'll have to try, especially if that varnish is still viable from 2017!
I usually open the can once, pour what I need into something much smaller and close the can until needed again. I tried sealed jars and even tried topping the liquid up in the jar by adding marbles. Somewhere around the shop I still have a couple of small mason jars full of a solid mass of cured varnish and marbles that I haven't thrown away!

[HoGo]

I've heard of another trick for oil varnish which is using thin sheet plastic foil to cover the can and push it in so it covers the whole surface and actually separates the varnish from air inside then close the lid and trim the foil.
I personally just use ordinary propane gas cigarette lighter (with broken spark so it won't fire) to fill the can with propane, aim the the lighter into can push the lever and count to ten, immediately close the lid. Propane is heavier than air so it will displace majority of oxygen. I haven't had a can go hard and I varnish mandolins once in few years so some of the cans have been open for 5 or more years.
I once tried spraying oil varnish with my airbrush but hated the cleanup so bad that I gave up upon it. I don't have spray booth so whole shop was filled with sticky mist that settled on everything around. Brushes don't produce that perfect leveled surface but they are quick and the time you save on cleanup and setup of gun you can spend with one or two coarser sanding sessions of the final coats.

[Jacob Hagerty]

It buffs just fine. I spray Epifanes then apply a TO top coat and apply it to the buffer. I also use the cheap harbor freight guns.

I'm currently using Epifanes Clear High-Gloss Marine Varnish. They offer another similar varnish with a bit less UV blocker, which would be fine for instruments (which don't spend nearly as much time in the sun as most boats!) and I considered trying it last time I bought varnish, but it is more expensive and I've been getting good results with what I'm using, so I did not try the other varnish.

I've said this before but I'll say it again:
I said to myself; "self, your pretty good with a spray gun but not so hot with a brush" so I haven't tried brushing the varnish but instead spray it with my usual finish gun ($30+ Harbor Freight currently).
I thin for spraying with lacquer thinner. The thinner/reducer available from Epifanes, or mineral spirits, helps considerably with flow out and leveling of brush marks, but it seriously increases the chances of runs and sags when spraying. Lacquer thinner evaporates much faster so runs and sags are not a problem.

I've been top-coating with Truoil and have not tried buffing the varnish itself, but I'm confident that it would work fine because of the look of the surface after preparing for TO. That is, sanded to 1500 grit.

The Epifanes product is good, and as is obvious from this discussion there are many ways to apply it, so once again results come down to the skill of the finisher.

As for material savings using a brush as opposed to spraying, that is a "nonissue" for me because I varnish only a portion of the instruments that I finish and I nearly never use up even the smallest can of varnish before some is wasted from curing in the container. (No, I haven't tried "bloxygen".)

[soliver]

I use John Hamlett's method as well under his guidance and have had great results... when I don't sand thru the varnish at least... Epiphanes clear gloss and Truoil. ...I don't have a very big compressor, so I added an improvised tank and use a gun I bought on Amazon that is LVLP (Low Volume Low Pressure) rather than HVLP and it works really well.

I've also had good results with Bloxygen. The last can I opened has lasted over a year with no hardening.

[HoGo]

I thin for spraying with lacquer thinner. The thinner/reducer available from Epifanes, or mineral spirits, helps considerably with flow out and leveling of brush marks, but it seriously increases the chances of runs and sags when spraying. Lacquer thinner evaporates much faster so runs and sags are not a problem.

I'm running out of my varnish (if it hasn't hardened in the can yet) so I'm considering the Epifanes. I wonder what is "lacquer thinner".
In our country we had had a long tradition of exact system of marking of all solvents with one letter and four digits so typical thinner for cellulose paints/lacquers would be marked like C6000 (lower number generally meaning faster evaporation) slower one for brushing would be C6006. Thinner for brushing synthetic/oil slow drying paints would be S6006, thinners for pure oil paints would be O1000 (which was actually substitute for turpentine). All these were mixes of various substances with exception of pure acetone or pure turpentine and few others.
I can sometimes find imported bottles of "mineral spirits" in art supply shops but I have no idea what product would be comparable to US "lacquer thinner".

[Richard500]

Adrian, don’t look to the US for any rational standards (in this or any other areas). Mineral spirits can be anything, and in fact are often half methanol, which is really criminal, labels are not required to list actual contents, and even the MSDS (material safety date sheets) often call mixtures proprietary and do not disclose. Then, too, each state can set its own regulations, so VOC rules vary and thinner in my state isn’t necessarily what it is next door.
Lacquer thinners have three main issues: volatility (VOC), toxicity, and specific compatibility. Ones sold as for auto paints do not resemble hardware store versions. The auto paint versions can be labelled by temperature, that is volatility suitable for ambient air temperatures so that painters don’t have to be master chemists. A high-temp thinner, for example, will be slower drying, and therefore better flow.

[Jim Hilburn]

This was the only time I used it. This is just the Epi buffed on the wheel. I thought it was a little too plastic looking.

[sunburst]

Adrian, I don't know how to answer your question, but lacquer thinner can be mostly acetone (or not) and various fast evaporating organic solvents. The terms "thinner" and "reducer" are used almost interchangeably, although technically they are not the same thing. We can buy "lacquer thinner" in any hardware store and it tends to be a mystery mixture and I consider it "wash grade", meaning good for cleaning equipment and other cleaning tasks but somewhat suspect for use in finishes. Many do use it for finishes with good results, and I do too sometimes in "emergencies". The lacquer thinners/reducers that I use in my finishes are bought through finish suppliers, and I tent to like slower thinners for lacquer (and even use some retarder from time to time) but as organic solvents go they are still relatively fast evaporating.
My guess is, whichever end of your numbering system is fastest evaporating is where you need to select a product. Perhaps not the fastest available, but hopefully you can get small enough quantities to experiment.

[HoGo]

Thanks John. I'm still not sure I will give spraying anther chance. I tried spraying varnish many years ago after I heard that some folks use it thinned with acetone and airbrush it btu it didn't work as well as I was expecting and without proper ventilation the whole area got messed with sticky mist. So I just kept brushing it on and just use airbrush for shellac sealer or some tiny touchup of color.
I will do some experiments outside if it's worth trying again.

[sunburst]

Yes, the overspray is sticky and gets on a lot of stuff in the absence of a good exhaust fan (and paint arrestors!).
Before I had a good spray booth the main problem I had spraying varnish outside was airborne dust and insects. Drying is slow enough that there is a long period of time for stuff to stick to the freshly sprayed surface compared to lacquer.