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Thread: Early Givens?

  1. #1
    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Early Givens?

    I've done some research. However I know this Board to be a real, Mandolin Detective Agency. I am looking at an F Style Mandolin, online, that the seller refers to a Givens "Ode" "The Monroe". From what research I have done thus far, I've read mostly about the A Style Odes. Seems to be some sort of Collaboration between R.L. Givens, Tut Taylor and maybe Randy Wood?
    Built in 1975. Seller is asking $2250.00. Anyone here had any experience with the F styles of this mandolin model? Thanks. And would it be worth 2250.00? I'm not going to offer that of course.
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    Registered User John Rosett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    Can you post any pictures?
    "it's not in bad taste, if it's funny" - john waters

  3. #3
    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    John. Here is a description; "For Sale: Rare 1975 Givens F "The Monroe" ODE mandolin. Excellent except for a small surface/finish crack to lower right of scroll (does not effect sound or play-ability and has not changed/moved in the 6 years I've owned it). Beautiful mature sound, easy play-ability, recent setup. Flat ebony fret-board. Serial # 7544. 1 1/8th inch nut width. Wonderful example of Robert Givens work. Original Givens stamped tailpiece and original hard shell case."

    I attached a couple of Pics. I'll see if I can get more.

    There. That should be enough.

    He did tell me he'd take $2000.00 shipped.
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    Last edited by Bill Kammerzell; Mar-12-2023 at 3:33pm. Reason: More Pics
    Ray Dearstone #009 D1A (1999)
    Skip Kelley #063 Offset Two Point (2017)
    Arches #9 A Style (2005)
    Bourgeois M5A (2022)
    Hohner and Seydel Harmonicas (various keys)

    "Heck, Jimmy Martin don't even believe in Santy Claus!"

  4. #4
    Registered User jd.panko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    '23 Girouard Griffith Tribute
    '85 Stan Miller A
    '16 Stan Miller F

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    Registered User jd.panko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    '23 Girouard Griffith Tribute
    '85 Stan Miller A
    '16 Stan Miller F

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    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    Quote Originally Posted by jd.panko View Post
    Different Serial Number.
    Ray Dearstone #009 D1A (1999)
    Skip Kelley #063 Offset Two Point (2017)
    Arches #9 A Style (2005)
    Bourgeois M5A (2022)
    Hohner and Seydel Harmonicas (various keys)

    "Heck, Jimmy Martin don't even believe in Santy Claus!"

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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    That's odd. It looks like the same pictures that you posted above...same finish crack/mark near the scroll, pictures were even taken on the same couch!
    What a coincidence!

    Kirk

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    I think you might have seen the same one, there are two on reverb.
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    An ad in a 1975 bluegrass publication...Click image for larger version. 

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    too many strings

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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    The scroll in the advertisement looks waaaay better than the scroll in the picture.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  11. #11
    Registered User Caberguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    There's one at Bernunzio's too... a bit more optimistically priced (as is their want): https://bernunzio.com/product/givens-ode-f-10-28468/

    Oops... already linked too, and I guess I only kind of skimmed the thread.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Early Givens?

    Begs the question, if there are three of them currently for sale -- how good are they? I would expect it to have a "vintage" sound that would be superior to what $2K buys you new, but evidently that isn't the case?? Or, nobody knows about them....

  13. #13
    Registered User samlyman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    That mandolin looks like one I tried out at Greg Boyd's shop about 30 years ago. I was in the market for a Givens and tried out everything I could find from him. The ODE- Monroe sounded okay (not great) but I opted instead for a Givens A-6 that I bought new for $1,000 at the time. Who would have thought that prices would get so high . Then again, one of my buddies bought a Gilchrist around that time for $3000 and I thought that was way too much money .

    BTW, I live in Idaho and used to drop by Bob's shop on Government Way in Hayden Lake, ID just to see what he was building in his shop that had been converted from an old gas station.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    According to the 1975 ad in post #9, the Ode mandolins were "designed by Bob Givens and hand-crafted by Tut Taylor for Gretsch."

    I take that to mean that Givens furnished plans but was not involved in the construction, and Tut operated or oversaw the shop; but Gretsch was in control of the budget and specs of the actual instruments.

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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    According to the 1975 ad in post #9, the Ode mandolins were "designed by Bob Givens and hand-crafted by Tut Taylor for Gretsch."

    I take that to mean that Givens furnished plans but was not involved in the construction, and Tut operated or oversaw the shop; but Gretsch was in control of the budget and specs of the actual instruments.
    There has certainly been a lot of discussion about this through the years. Unfortunately Givens and Taylor are gone now. I tried to engage Tut's son Mark on the subject once...he came off as knowing about it, but nothing he had to say on the topic jived with what I had learned through the years. Dunno for sure if this ever fully got off the ground with Gretsch. I would say Taylor was in charge of the specs, but there were prototypes and I believe that's what we see in that ad. Tut did get into some level of production with A models, but I understand he was left holding the bag on these after the Gretsch distribution fell through. He had an ad in the classifieds in the back of Frets magazine that read (paraphrased) "A-model mandolins in the white $150". Dunno how many he had to sell, but I know at least a half-dozen ended up in Tucson when I lived there. I still have mine.
    too many strings

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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    Gretsch slowly started descending into a hole after Baldwin bought them in 1967. The hole started to get deeper when they moved production to Arkansas in 1970, and got yet deeper as the decade progressed. Then Charlie Roy, who had a long history of burning unsuspecting contractors by renegging on high volume manufacturiong and distribution deals, bought them in 1978. Anyone who got caught in that mess was lucky to put food on the table. Tut was always able to find a way to keep going, but . . .

  18. #17
    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    Thanks for all the replies. I did offer $1750.00. I wasn't going any higher either. The guy came back with 1950 shipped and I declined. I'm going in another direction. Have an offer in on a Ratliff.
    Ray Dearstone #009 D1A (1999)
    Skip Kelley #063 Offset Two Point (2017)
    Arches #9 A Style (2005)
    Bourgeois M5A (2022)
    Hohner and Seydel Harmonicas (various keys)

    "Heck, Jimmy Martin don't even believe in Santy Claus!"

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    I would be curious to see how the F models were constructed. On my A model, the neck joint follows the traditional Spanish classical guitar method where the neck and neck block are one piece, with the rims let into rabbets cut into the neck/neck block. No possibility of neck angle reset here. Additionally anyone who objects to non-traditional materials in A5/F5mandolin construction will be put off by the mahogany necks on these.
    too many strings

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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    "designed by Bob Givens and hand-crafted by Tut Taylor for Gretsch."
    The story that I've heard over the years (no first hand knowledge FWIW) is that Tut Taylor, Bob Givens, and (maybe Randy Wood?) were in on this building venture together. But things started to not go well financially so Bob Givens grabbed his tools, left Nashville, and headed out West in the middle of the night.
    So that's why they were "designed by Bob Givens"...folks speculate that he may have had his hands on some of the early ones, maybe not.

    Kirk

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    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    Quote Originally Posted by tiltman View Post
    The story that I've heard over the years (no first hand knowledge FWIW) is that Tut Taylor, Bob Givens, and (maybe Randy Wood?) were in on this building venture together. But things started to not go well financially so Bob Givens grabbed his tools, left Nashville, and headed out West in the middle of the night.
    So that's why they were "designed by Bob Givens"...folks speculate that he may have had his hands on some of the early ones, maybe not.

    Kirk
    Vintage Mandolins Bio of Givens. Says as much

    http://www.vintagemandolin.com/givens_history.html
    Ray Dearstone #009 D1A (1999)
    Skip Kelley #063 Offset Two Point (2017)
    Arches #9 A Style (2005)
    Bourgeois M5A (2022)
    Hohner and Seydel Harmonicas (various keys)

    "Heck, Jimmy Martin don't even believe in Santy Claus!"

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  23. #21
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Early Givens?

    I owned one of those mid-70's "Ode-The Monroe" F-5's. It was decent, had a plain maple back and sides, spruce top with a hogwood neck. It was on the heavy side I thought, had a great comfy neck and I liked the tone. For around 2K I think thats a decent deal as I think I sold mine for more but this was maybe 15 years ago.

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