Lightest/Smallest machine heads?

[Tavy]

So... a bit of history here, some time ago I was commissioned to produce a pair of electric travel mandolins which were designed to fit inside a specific luggage size and of course, weigh as little as possible. By using the Gotoh Stealth tuners I not only saved weight, but was also able to shrink the headstock size - ideal!

Fast forward a few years, and unnoticed I now see that Gotoh have discontinued the Stealth's

Does anyone know of anything similar? Or at least small and light? A full set of 8 Stealth's were about 90g, where as most 4-on-a-plate designs are at least double that. BTW not only did the Stealths reduce overall weight, but they also improved the instrument's overall balance no end.

For posterity, here's the first of the travel mandolins I made, it's just 21x10" overall, and I don't see how I can do that with regular tuners, from memory I think I saved a good 1/2" length from using the Stealths... doesn't sound much but it was the difference between fitting the luggage or not.

[Richard500]

The model seems to be available in sets of 6 for guitar. Not dimensionally ok for mando? Also note large variety in other individual types, no weights given.
Anyway- striking mandolin! From whence the wood, and how the finish?

[Anglocelt]

I have a Paul Shippey 'tone' mandolin with the Stealths fitted. UK makers seem to nearly always install the standard individual Gotohs which add weight and unbalances the mandolin, rather than the strip tuners I prefer - I blame Sobell for starting this trend. I once failed to persuade a well-known UK maker (not Sobell) to use strip tuners, which I offered to supply, on a new build. He refused as it would 'spoil the aesthetics of his design'. I suspect he did not want the bother of making a new installation jig.

[Tavy]

The model seems to be available in sets of 6 for guitar.

It *was*, but as I said, it's been discontinued: https://g-gotoh.com/product/st31/?lang=en

Not dimensionally ok for mando? Also note large variety in other individual types, no weights given.
Anyway- striking mandolin! From whence the wood, and how the finish?

Top is spruce with Golden Madrone overlay. Satin EnduroVar finish - gloss would have been silly on a travel instrument.

[Tavy]

I have a Paul Shippey 'tone' mandolin with the Stealths fitted. UK makers seem to nearly always install the standard individual Gotohs which add weight and unbalances the mandolin, rather than the strip tuners I prefer - I blame Sobell for starting this trend. I once failed to persuade a well-known UK maker (not Sobell) to use strip tuners, which I offered to supply, on a new build. He refused as it would 'spoil the aesthetics of his design'. I suspect he did not want the bother of making a new installation jig.

I hear you. The individual tuners are cheap, dead easy to install, and work really well... certainly much better than your average 4-on-a-plate, but yes, so much heavier. The great thing about the Stealth's was that they were about half the weight again as 4-on-plate.

[sunburst]

So many times I find out about a product, try it and like it, and then it becomes unavailable. This time I get to skip at least one step; I find out about a product and it is already unavailable before I even get to try it!

[Charles E.]

Just curious, what made the Gotoh "stealth" tuners so lightweight? Thinner plates? Titanium Plates?

[Ray(T)]

They’re tiny and I think the bodies were made of some form of glass reinforced plastic. A local, now retired, luthier, Ged Green, once showed me a set and told me that they were meant to be built into a headstock. Never actually seen them in use but I’ve always imagined that they weren’t durable enough (too lightweight) to simply screw on the back of a headstock.

[Tavy]

Just curious, what made the Gotoh "stealth" tuners so lightweight? Thinner plates? Titanium Plates?

Mostly their size, they were just 11g each BTW:

A local, now retired, luthier, Ged Green, once showed me a set and told me that they were meant to be built into a headstock.

Gotoh advertised that as something you *could* do, but I've never seen anyone actually do it, and to be honest the string posts were too long for that anyway IMO.

[tom.gibson]

Mostly their size, they were just 11g each BTW:





Gotoh advertised that as something you *could* do, but I've never seen anyone actually do it, and to be honest the string posts were too long for that anyway IMO.

Ken Parker did, when he used them.

[EdHanrahan]

... what made the Gotoh "stealth" tuners so lightweight?

Looking at their spec drawing, the worm is maybe 1/3 the diameter of "normal"; the outside diameter of the (hidden) worm is clearly smaller than the o.d. of the tuning shaft. Make the gear correspondingly thinner and you're free to shrink the housing. But I'd be suspicious of the longevity of such a tiny worm-on-cog bearing surface. Also, no photos show the bottom of the mounting plate; suspect that it's open to allow both lightness and clearance under the worm?

[amowry]

I don't believe the plates were open on the inside. I used them on a ten string several years ago and they worked fine, though I was a bit suspect of longevity too. They also had a bit more backlash than I like to see. I sure hope they last, if they're irreplaceable now!

[Ray(T)]

As I’ve often said, “Life is only temporary.”.