Am I Alone in This?

[JiminRussia]

There are things in life that I just CANNOT do! I am old enough to accept the fact that:
1. I cannot sing.
2. I cannot dance.
The dancing part is more or less behind me now that I’ in my mid 70’s, but for some reason people in the bluegrass world keep expecting me to join in on the vocals, at least until they hear me for the first time! The last time I tried singing and dancing, I saw several people bring out their cell phones to call 911 to report and old man having a seizure! As I said,I accept that I CANNOT do these two things, but it does limit me in this genre of music. Bluegrass as it is played today is either a blazingly fast, ridiculously complicated instrumental solo or it is sung, usually in multipart harmony, and no, I can’t play really fast either. I’ve even gone so far as to learn to play the harmonica a bit in the hopes that if I have something in my mouth other than a ham sandwich, I won’t be asked to sing. The point of this is, do any/many/some of you have the same situation and how do you deal with it? I can SAY that I’m content with my situation, but that isn’t exactly true. It does still bother that there is NOTHING that I can do about it. I can’t grow new vocal chords and I can’t undo what 76 years of not so clean living has done to me.
Thanks for letting a old man rant!

[Simon DS]

What type of singing lessons have you taken before?
Which types of teachers did you prefer?
Is Tai Chi a form of dance?

[grassrootphilosopher]

Well I am no expert concerning the dancing thing. But think of choreographers like the famous Maurice Béjart. As far as I know he was dancing as an old man still while having crippeling arthritis.

As to singing: My singing teacher says that nearly everybody can sing. There are practically no tone deaf people and only the mute cannot sing. While learning from him I find that he has a point.

It is all about how you express yourself. There´s allways someone who does not like what you´re doing.

[Denis Kearns]

I like to “sing”, but it’s the listeners that have issues with it! ; not being cruel, I tend to restrict my singing to unpopulated areas.

As for dancing, it is one of life’s great pleasures. I met my late wife in what we called a “traditional manner”: in a bar, dancing to live music. We got to dance for 35 years to lots of excellent live music, as well as to canned music in the kitchen. We were regularly complimented on our dancing and discovered that musicians really appreciate folks that paid attention to the music (met a lot of musicians who would come talk to us on their breaks - maybe because my wife was so cute, but I like to think it was because of our dancing). We danced to Texas swing in Austin, rhythm and blues in St. Louis, and swing, blues and jazz throughout California. I learned in dives and by watching folks and copying their moves. Everybody should dance; it’s one of the best parts about being human.

My “rules” for dancing:
1. Listen to the music (always live, unless it’s in the kitchen!)
2. Stay on the beat.
3. Pay attention to your partner.
4. Don’t be afraid to experiment.
5. Above all, have fun!
And I had to add # 6….. Don’t dance with drunk people.

Besides staying on the beat, I like to dance to the structure of the music and change moves as the music changes.

My Irish grandmother once said to my sister, “ You wouldn’t date a boy who couldn’t dance, would you?”

[JeffD]

I don't sing and I don't dance. I might not say "can't" but there are much more rewarding goals for me to chase after.

Butch Baldissari was an amazing mandolinner, composer, recording artist, etc. One of my all time favorites, and IMO the best tremolo I have ever heard. To my knowledge he was not a singer, I can't recall ever hearing him sing. He is not known for is singing songs. I have several many CDs of his without a song on them.

I am truly fortunate that my happiness does not require me to sing, or to dance.

[Bren]

You can't play properly in a ceilidh band if you can't dance.
At least that's what they say.
I'm so hopeless that two left feet would be an improvement, but an Eightsome Reel or Orcadian Strip the Willow is a very forgiving thing.
Athletic young women just grab me and hurl me around.

[Don Grieser]

Athletic young women just grab me and hurl me around.

Scotland sounds wonderful.

[jaycat]

[journeybear]

Yeah, I'm not too much on dancing, and I've heard plenty of feedback (not the Hendrix kind) about my singing. I've learned how to use what I've got as well as I can, concentrating more on being able to put a song across than really, truly sing it. My role models in this are Mose Allison, Jerry Garcia, Willie Nelson, Bob Dylan, folks like that. They managed, so can I.

Dancing ... well, as I've often said, "No one wants to see all this move," gesturing to my belly. When I do dance, it's the "musician's dance" - standing in place, rocking back and forth, as if playing an instrument. It looks better when actually playing an instrument. I worked this into a song, partly about a waitress in a bar dancing while holding a tray (quite a sight, worthy of being commemorated thus). The tag line at the end of the pre-chorus is. "I can't dance, that's why I play," which leads to the chorus and its hook, "Keep on dancing" (also the title).

[mandopops]

When someone asks if I can sing, I say “No, but I never let it stop me.”

Joe B

[NDO]

I sing in a band so that I won’t have to dance.

[Peter Coronado]

This thread reminds me of this. Always makes me smile!

[milli857]

I was like you but the longer I go to bluegrass jams, the more I find myself wanting to learn to sing. I gave it a go at my jam last night, sang Red Rocking Chair, and I think it went OK.

[Amanda Gregg]

Just gotta find the song that suits your voice. If one doesn't exist, you can write it.

[bigskygirl]

Agree with Amanda, you just have to figure out the key(s) that suits your voice. You play music so if you haven’t already develop your ear. I didn’t sing for a long time and finally decided to give it a try and it’s loads of fun. Take some singing lessons or try Michael Daves course at AW.

You may just not know how to get on the melody…maybe you’re a good harmony singer…

If you don’t want to sing then don’t if that’s what you CHOOSE but you opened a whole thread here about it so I’m guessing you may want to sing and just don’t know how to get started.

[CarlM]

You may not be able to grow new vocal chords but you can improve them with practice. It may go from awful to bad or from bad to not so bad but it would be an improvement. The best practice for me was learning to sing harmony and doing it to cds or radio by myself in the car with no one to complain. Singing harmony forces you to pay attention to melody and match pitches.

I have increased my vocal range by half an octave to an octave in my mid 60s. I can sing about any Norman Blake song in his key and hit all the notes. I could not do that 10 years ago. I have gone from being asked to just play and not sing to being asked to sing publicly and complimented on it over about a 15 year period. I am still far from a great vocalist but can sing decently now. I had to focus and work on it to get there. It did not come naturally.

There are not very many people who absolutely cannot. Tony Rice after his focal dystonia comes to mind but he had nearly overcome it shortly before he died. Some people with other disabilities like throat cancer or Linda Ronstadt's Parkinson's. You probably won't be Dailey or Vincent or Monroe tenor but most guys can manage a Tom Waits growl at least. You just have to find your range and keys that work and learn to match pitches.

[Bertram Henze]

Athletic young women just grab me and hurl me around.

Can someone put that picture of a Scot being tossed like a caber (fèileadh beag implied) out of my head?

[John Kelly]

Bren said, "...an Eightsome Reel or Orcadian Strip the Willow is a very forgiving thing. Athletic young women just grab me and hurl me around." I was compere at a Robert Burns event locally here on Saturday evening and you would certainly have enjoyed the dances, Bren. Lots of good Ceilidh dancing going on and I even managed a few myself. Ceilidh dancing is quite different from its more genteel cousin Scottish Country Dancing though the dances originate from the same sources. Linking arms and general hurling around of partners is seriously frowned upon in the polite world of The Royal Scottish Country Dance Society!

Bertram, unfortunately I now have that image in my head that you so graphically put there!

[John Flynn]

I took a "Singing for Instrumentalists" course once, taught by the late Troy Weidenheimer, who FWIW, was the leader of the Zodiacs, in San Francisco, which was the first professional band Jerry Garcia was in, although that fact is a digression. He taught us that everyone can sing. The #1 problem with singing is not being in a key that's good for you. If you can call the key for a tune, you can sing it. A lot of recorded tunes are in keys that are not right for the occasional singer. I can sing most stuff if I can get all the melody notes in the G3 - G4 octave.

I sing when I can, and I don't when I can't. Sometimes I just sing the chorus, not the verses. As to Bluegrass being too fast, if you have the chop chords down, you can always play rhythm. If you take a solo, it can just be the melody, maybe with a trick or two thrown in. Most Bluegrass melodies are not too hard.

As to dancing, you're on your own. But Phil Collins has the same problem and look how far he got:

[EdHanrahan]

... cannot sing.

The dancing part I can't argue with, but don't give up hope.

At 60 or so, I read (& practiced, alone in the car!) "Singing For Dummies". Definitely helped. Now at 76, I can pretty reliably find a bluegrass harmony, which STILL surprises the heck outta me! THIS helped a lot:
https://www.amazon.com/How-Sing-Harm.../dp/B001UDXZR6

These days, when driving by myself, I still try to belt out harmony notes to almost any tune.

[mbruno]

I hated singing for years - primarily because I was told how bad I was at it. Over a few years I've taken some lessons from some great vocalists (Francesca Valle is still my favorite) and learned a few things. Now people even say they "don't mind my singing" haha. Try the below everyday for a month. Shouldn't take more than 15 minutes a day (though more is better often) and you'd be surprised by the results

1. Get a vocal analyzer app - I use Nail the Pitch but there's a lot of others. This basically will just tell you what note you're actually singing which can be great to go from "a little flat/sharp" to on pitch. Use that for all your vocal practices at least to start

2. Play and Sing Solfège notes (do re mi fa so la ti) - ideally with a piano, but mando works too. Start with just Do and nailing that. Then do Do Re Do. Then Do Re Mi Re Do. Then Do Re Mi Fa Mi Re Do etc. Then jump using Do Mi Do and Do Fa Do and etc.

3. Avoid songs with big vocal jumps - Kids songs like Mary hand a little Lamb are great practices and often just run up and down a scale without big jumps. The big note jumps can be a trouble spot to start

4. Find your key - most people have a key they prefer to sing in. For me, I really like D, Bb, and A. I find my voice works well in those keys. Ideally I'd like to sing perfect in all 12 keys - but I'll take "singing decent in 3" if that's what I can haha. Starting off with a narrower key focus can help focus your attention on the intervals rather than the notes.

5. Practice ear training - you can do this with your voice, your mando, or both. Really work on interval recognition (i.e. play the note C and then E and try to hear that's a 3rd etc). There's a lot of books and apps on this topic - while a teacher is great, apps are really good for practicing IMO.

6. Just sing your songs - Go to jams and sing. Sing badly. It's okay. If you just don't sing because "you can't" you never will be able to - so just understand that you're learning and just do it. If people boo you, well boo them back for being the "tone police" or something. Just about everyone sucks when they start - which pushes too many to stop quickly. Just do what you love.

[JeffD]

Just gotta find the song that suits your voice. If one doesn't exist, you can write it.

I took a single singing lesson, or really a trial interview with a voice coach.

It turns out that after a lifetime of thinking I was a tenor, I was actually a baritone. Had no idea. Had I learned this in my younger days, I might have learned to sing in a relaxed unstrained baritone voice, and actually enjoyed it. But time and tide have not waited, and I have no more interest in singing (except alone going from the shower to the bathrobe).

[Cheryl Watson]

Millions of people cannot sing very well, and many cannot sing at all. Many mandolinists, especially as they get older, cannot play fast, raging bluegrass. So I would stick to playing slower bluegrass ballads and waltzes. And some slow blues is really cool! Focus on melody and tone instead of blazing speed.

[bigskygirl]

My jam got together yesterday - it’s struggled getting going since Covid - I went and brought a song…I’ll Love Nobody But You (McR Bros). Well, I wasn’t quite right explaining the chord progression (it’s simple), pretty much garbled up the lyrics (only 3 lines really, good thing it wasn’t an 87 verse Dylan song), and probably sang waaaayyy off key but boy, was it FUN…!…and yes, I’ll do it again next week…after a bit of review and practice…lol

PS: to the OP, no-one said anything about the singing, there was more discussion on the chord progression…so the takeaway again is…just do it (if you want) nobody is paying that much attention to you and it’s over in a couple minutes anyway.

[JiminRussia]

Yep! That’s what I was afraid of. Yes, I am alone in this.