New Piccolo and My Piccolo Trio

[Jim Garber]

I saw this small mandolin that actually looks like one of those pocket mandolins (mandolin scale but on a very small body) but proportionately looked to me to be a piccolo. I lucked out and it is a piccolo.

It was, oddly enough, on Shopgoodwill, but is in relatively good shape. A wee bowlback made in Catania, Sicily by Stefano Caponnetto. Below are some pics.

Nut looks like it needs to be replaced but fretboard looks pretty straight. I have a feeling the bridge is not original but it looks like it should be lowered a bit. Strings are from the mezzozoic era and black with age. There might be a hairline crack or separation on the bowl.

Here's some info on one of my favorite guitar sites: https://www.fetishguitars.com/sicily...ly/caponnetto/

This mandolin looks like it came from the same era as that small guitar all the way on the bottom of this page

The only other info I have is from my Henley violin book, a short entry that says only "Worked at Catania, (Sicily) 1930. Bowed and plucked instruments. Commercial.

Another Caponetto mandolin is discussed here: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...wlback-on-ebay

I just read through this 18-year old thread from 2004, when I first got my Leland piccolo: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...colo-Mandolins

[Jim Garber]

And for your further entertainment, here are a couple of photos of my three vintage piccolo mandolins: Leland, Caponnetto, unlabeled maybe American. The two bowlbacks have the same scale length of around 9-7/8 inches / 25cm. I especially like the sort of Embergher look of this Caponnetto though it is not really built like a Roman instrument.

[Richard500]

Glad you got this one; I was thinking someone would buy it thinking it was full-size, the measurements in SGW not being too reliable. It does look like the ist string broke through the wood nut, but it’s a zerofret machine so replacing the wood part is trivial. The bridge saddle, chewed rather deeply by the strings could have been something like celluloid or another plastic. Having just picked up another mandolin from that part of Italy, I looked at this one, but figured I would never play it. Apparently Caponnetto had a lot of good production; his violins are valuable, and he did some interesting guitars, as below-

[Jim Garber]

Actually, looking at the fuzzy photo of that parlor guitar from the fetish guitar site the piccolo bridge may well be original.

[John Bertotti]

Thanks for those picture. I loved seeing them!

[Sue Rieter]

They're really cool, Jim. I'd like to know more about how (looking at ads) you distinguish between them and the less worthy pocket mandolins.

[Jim Garber]

Overall length was listed as 19 inches. Normal mandolin is about 27 inches. Actually I just guessed a pocket would be a little longer than 19". It was a good guess since a pocket mandolin scale would be around 13" which would leave only 4" left for the body and headstock over and above the scale length.

[Bob Clark]

Hi Jim,

I really enjoy your piccolo mandolin posts, being a piccolo mandolin enthusiast myself. I thought I'd post a photo of the trio of piccolos I am playing these days.

The first on the left is an A4-style piccolo mandolin Mike Black built for me. Really a super little instrument.

The middle one is a flat-top I built a couple of years ago but keep hanging onto because every time I get the notion to sell it, I have a need for it. At this point, I've built a number of these. I take this one to most of my duo's gigs and audiences seem to really like it.

The third is the prototype of my 4-string, nylon-strung piccolos, of which I am just completing my second one. I like the nylon voice. I'll post a thread about that second one with a video, once it's finished.

[Jim Garber]

Hey Bob: I was wondering when you would find this thread. I have been following your piccolo journey.

[brunello97]

Overall length was listed as 19 inches. Normal mandolin is about 27 inches. Actually I just guessed a pocket would be a little longer than 19". It was a good guess since a pocket mandolin scale would be around 13" which would leave only 4" left for the body and headstock over and above the scale length.

Slightly off topic, naturally, but this reminds me of a poignant Italian expression: braccino corto.

I've heard it used as a derogatory term for a tightwad. Someone whose arm is too short to reach their pockets or wallet for money.

A 19" pocket would only compound the problem.


I'd enjoy hearing that Leland some day, Jim.

And Bob's, too, of course!

Mick

[Jim Garber]

I'd enjoy hearing that Leland some day, Jim.

Mick

Mick, I posted this sound file a few times after I got the Leland piccolo playable. You can play the mp3 on this thread post: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...=1#post1771577

[Tim Logan]

This is an interesting thread - thank you Jim. But what exactly is the difference between a piccolo, pocket, and modern day travel mandolin? I've always been fascinated with "pochette" violin "kits" used by dance masters traveling on horse back - some of them in museums like the Victoria & Albert, are just awesome. In the link below you can see how narrow they were - basically a neck with no body. I've seen some of the played remarkably well by accomplished violinists.

Here's a link: https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O...ouyn-dimanche/

The mandolin's described here all appear to be much wider than the pocket violin kits. Historically, was there an equivalent "mandolin pochette" (for lack of knowing the right term) that would have been carried by itinerant musicians traveling on horseback and that truly would fit in a pocket like the violin pochettes? Thank you for any input.

[Sue Rieter]

This is an interesting thread - thank you Jim. But what exactly is the difference between a piccolo, pocket, and modern day travel mandolin? I've always been fascinated with "pochette" violin "kits" used by dance masters traveling on horse back - some of them in museums like the Victoria & Albert, are just awesome. In the link below you can see how narrow they were - basically a neck with no body. I've seen some of the played remarkably well by accomplished violinists.

Here's a link: https://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O...ouyn-dimanche/

The mandolin's described here all appear to be much wider than the pocket violin kits. Historically, was there an equivalent "mandolin pochette" (for lack of knowing the right term) that would have been carried by itinerant musicians traveling on horseback and that truly would fit in a pocket like the violin pochettes? Thank you for any input.

[Bob Clark]

To be clear about Piccolo mandolins, they are not just a smaller mandolin. Piccolo mandolins are the sopranino member of the mandolin family. Their bodies are proportionately smaller than a mandolin, just as typical mandola bodies are larger than a mandolin. They are tuned a fourth higher than a mandolin (cgda), an octave above a mandola. Their shorter scale length reflects this higher pitch, as does their smaller body size. They are not primarily designed for travel, but as a legitimate member of the mandolin family of instruments.

The travel mandolin I had was a Weber Sweet Pea. It is tuned gdae, like other mandolins. Its scale length is in keeping with other gdae mandolins but its body is considerably smaller than even a piccolo mandolin. It was designed for travel and is perfectly suited for that purpose, but it lacked the tone and volume you'd want for playing with others. Good for its intended purpose, but that purpose is travel, not ensemble play. In fact, I found it well designed as a rugged travel companion.

Piccolo mandolins, however, do (or at least 'can') have the tone and volume needed for playing with others. While small and hence easy to travel with, they are not as small as typical travel mandolins. They can have a very sweet but higher pitched voice than other members of the mandolin family. And their voice is distinctly theirs, just as is the voice of the mandolin, mandola and so on.

I'm not clear on what a pochette is. At some point, it all comes down to semantics anyway. But I hope the information I provided on what a piccolo (sopranino) mandolin is helps. I would not think of it as a small mandolin any more than I would think of a mandola as a large mandolin. They are, instead, distinct members of this one family of instruments.

Best wishes, Bob

[Tim Logan]

Thanks Bob. That totally clears it up about piccolo mandolins!

I know in the world of violins, a dance master's kit or pochette, , was a very specific instrument like the one you see in the link I attached. I've just always been curious as to whether or not, historically, there was an equivalent "mandolin kit" back in the 17-18th centuries. "Kit" being a specific term of reference.

[brunello97]

Mick, I posted this sound file a few times after I got the Leland piccolo playable. You can play the mp3 on this thread post: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...=1#post1771577

Thanks, Jim.

I must have missed this.

Funny thing...the player wouldn't show up as active in my Google browser and to load it in Firefox.

Nice to hear!

As you know, I'm a big fan of the Leland mandolin line.

Who did the repair / set up for you? Or did you do it yourself?

Mick

[JeffD]

Wow. wow. wow.

Jim, just wow.

Just play the potatoes out of it. Just make it sing.

As some may know I have a Weber Sopranino mandolin, the piccolo sized Weber Gallatin. It has been on the back burner for a while, but due to this thread I got it out and played it. Did mostly Christmas type music.

a legitimate member of the mandolin family of instruments.

Absolutely. There is a video, somewhere, of Mike Marshall noodling on a sopranino.

[Tim Logan]

Here's a video of a soprano mandolin. Holy Moly!!!!! Quite cool!

https://youtu.be/EzmRS6hfXdg

[Jim Garber]

To continue this discussion...

Oddly enough this Leland Brilliantone Piccolo has been listed on Reverb. The scale length is described as 9 inches which seems very short and the video provided sounds to me to be a standard mandolin. NOTE: I just checked and the video is not the mandolin for sale and, in fact, it is not a piccolo. I am taking out the video.

The bridge looks non-original. It is missing the tailpiece cover as well as the tuner gear cover. I did write to the seller to check the actual scale length. Mine is 10.25".

[Jim Garber]

This was how I got a standard Leland mandolin years ago. The seller listed it as a piccolo and was clueless about scale length. When I got it it was a standard mandolin.

Here are the two of them side by side for comparison. The piccolo usually has a much narrowed pickguard:



For reference, here is the Leland piccolo page for the ca. 1912 page L&H catalog.

[brunello97]

That's a good story, Jim.

I had a similar start with my first Leland. The seller advertised it as a 'mandola' which I was looking for.
Turned out to be a proper mandolin and when I strung it up, I was hooked.
Seller sent me a healthy refund on top of it.
Still one of my favorites. Carlo Aonzo borrowed it and wouldn't give it back.
Jokingly offered his in exchange.

Gorgeous RW back on the long haired dude's axe.

I've never bought into the LarBros sourcing for these.

Vega.

Mick

[Jim Garber]

So the Reverb seller checked the scale length she it was not 9 inches but more like 13”. So this is not a piccolo but actually a standard mandolin.

[brunello97]

So the Reverb seller checked the scale length she it was not 9 inches but more like 13”. So this is not a piccolo but actually a standard mandolin.

The bad news is that I'm tempted by another...particularly with that rosewood rohrshach back.

The Reverb price isn't unreasonable for a mandolin of this quality, but new tp cover, tuner cover, bridgework are surely needed.

These are high quality mandolins. The short scale, small body and perceived unchopability will no doubt keep them in the niche market.

For the Italian songbook I enjoy playing, I honestly prefer the tone over my Vinaccia or DeMeglio, but that may be my American ear.

Mick

[Jim Garber]

The bad news is that I'm tempted by another...particularly with that rosewood rohrshach back.

The Reverb price isn't unreasonable for a mandolin of this quality, but new tp cover, tuner cover, bridgework are surely needed.

These are high quality mandolins. The short scale, small body and perceived unchopability will no doubt keep them in the niche market.

For the Italian songbook I enjoy playing, I honestly prefer the tone over my Vinaccia or DeMeglio, but that may be my American ear.

Mick

I should fix up my Leland full size. It just needs, I think, a bone bridge saddle. I should get it together in the off-chance that you and I meet again to play some Italian-American duets.

[brunello97]

There's a rewarding project, Jim.

I'd enjoy hearing your take on the sound of a Leland mando.

I'm very taken with them.

Though when I look at my mando rack, I'm starting to think it's time to start thinning the herd.

Mick