I can’t remember if learning guitar was this hard

[Caleb]

I've been playing mandolin over 15 years now, and at some point I realized I'll never be very good at it. And really, that's ok with me. I'm happy to just be able to play a few tunes and have fun.

In my experience, the hard part about the mandolin isn't learning "where to put your fingers," but it's about getting good and consistent tone. Even if I'm playing smooth and hitting everything right, my tone never comes close to sounding like the pros on their worst days. In this way the mandolin is VERY much like its cousin the violin.

[Mainer73]

I've been playing mandolin over 15 years now, and at some point I realized I'll never be very good at it. And really, that's ok with me. I'm happy to just be able to play a few tunes and have fun.

In my experience, the hard part about the mandolin isn't learning "where to put your fingers," but it's about getting good and consistent tone. Even if I'm playing smooth and hitting everything right, my tone never comes close to sounding like the pros on their worst days. In this way the mandolin is VERY much like its cousin the violin.

I think working on tone is may more important than being able to make lots of notes too. In that respect, I believe the guitar is definitely easier. That said, after 25 years on violns, I can make great tone, and am happy with mine on the mandolin. I will probably never be able to maintain that tone at pro-picking speed but that's ok. They're both 2nd and 3rd tier to fiddling anyway. Which I CAN make fast and toneful 😆

[gtani7]

I'm quite fond of Kentucky's, currently have 2, used to have a couple more. your 250 maybe set up well but could also benefit from a fret level, nut slots /bridge refiled, some other stuff in Rob M's pdf book: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...by-Rob-Meldrum

Then you could try tuning down a half step, lower action, lighter gauge strings. These are kind of what people say on guitar forums "Is there anything that can make barre chords easier?"

[Mark Gunter]

If you find the mandolin much more difficult, you may want to try a few more mandolins other than your Eastman. You may find a more comfortable fit for your fretting hand. Playability is so important.

[Mike Scott]

I've been playing mandolin over 15 years now, and at some point I realized I'll never be very good at it. And really, that's ok with me. I'm happy to just be able to play a few tunes and have fun.

In my experience, the hard part about the mandolin isn't learning "where to put your fingers," but it's about getting good and consistent tone. Even if I'm playing smooth and hitting everything right, my tone never comes close to sounding like the pros on their worst days. In this way the mandolin is VERY much like its cousin the violin.

I'm glad you posted this. I'm pretty much in the same boat. I read the OP and thought-I can't do a lot of that stuff and I've been at this a long time (14 years). Maybe I took the wrong approach to learning; too old to try to start over. At this point, I'll stick to picking out melodies and 3 finger chop chords (for the occasional bluegrass jam) and call it good!

[Caleb]

I'm glad you posted this. I'm pretty much in the same boat. I read the OP and thought-I can't do a lot of that stuff and I've been at this a long time (14 years). Maybe I took the wrong approach to learning; too old to try to start over. At this point, I'll stick to picking out melodies and 3 finger chop chords (for the occasional bluegrass jam) and call it good!

I remember when I started the mandolin. Someone showed me a few chords and it seemed deceptively simple, and the layout made more sense than guitar ever has. Picking out melodies is super easy from the get-go on the mandolin, etc. But then one begins to realize how finicky the thing is, and how elusive good tone is, and it becomes very frustrating. I thought a fancy mandolin (Collings) would fix it, but I still sound like a novice in the tone department on it.

I know I’m a pretty good guitar player and can coax all kinds of tone variations out of it, but my mandolin playing has remained one dimensional. And like you said, I’m really too old to start over, and I don’t even care that much anymore. I drag my mandolin out once in a while and play through a bunch of O’Carolan tunes, enjoy it, get it all out of my system, and then go back to my guitar. No harm done.

[Mandobart]

Sounds like my experience is different from most people who replied on this thread.

I started violin at 10 years old. I don't remember a lot about the learning process. I had lessons and played in orchestra in school. I continued with it through high school, picking up a bunch of bluegrass tunes I was taught by ear.

When I turned 13 I took up acoustic guitar. My goal was to play the music I liked - Eagles, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, later John Prine, Steve Goodman and bluegrass. I was pretty much self taught. I also dabbled in electric bass and played in the school jazz band and of course a few rock bands.

None of these musical forays felt like work, or boring, or a chore. Playing music, especially with other people, has always been one of my joys in life.

Around 15 years ago my neighbor asked me to take a look at his old cheap mandolin. All I knew was it was tuned like a violin and I liked how it sounded in bluegrass.

I fixed the bridge, changed the strings, tuned it up and I swear all those old fiddle tunes I'd learned as a kid just fell right out of it. No effort at all to play songs, scales, arpeggios and double stops.

Learning chords and tremelo took a little longer.

I'm a pretty decent intermediocre mandolin player. I can play accompaniment on any song in any key in any genre, but I'll probably never be a red hot soloist.

My guitar and fiddle playing really improved as a result of learning mandolin as well.

[catmandu2]

I remember when I started the mandolin. Someone showed me a few chords and it seemed deceptively simple, and the layout made more sense than guitar ever has. Picking out melodies is super easy from the get-go on the mandolin, etc. But then one begins to realize how finicky the thing is, and how elusive good tone is, and it becomes very frustrating. I thought a fancy mandolin (Collings) would fix it, but I still sound like a novice in the tone department on it.

I know I’m a pretty good guitar player and can coax all kinds of tone variations out of it, but my mandolin playing has remained one dimensional. And like you said, I’m really too old to start over, and I don’t even care that much anymore. I drag my mandolin out once in a while and play through a bunch of O’Carolan tunes, enjoy it, get it all out of my system, and then go back to my guitar. No harm done.

Is this common? I've never experienced anything like. Mandolin 'finicky'? Among instruments I've played, mndln is among the least of these adjectives. Short scale, high-tension, steel stringed instruments simply don't offer the tonal variations and colorings of others (longer scale, lower-tension..) - it's just physics. If you're not particularly enjoying the sonic offerings of mndln, why pursue it?

Frustration isn't something you should be experiencing - with anything concerning learning music. If you don't sound the way you want to sound, there are any number of ways to improve. But the mndln will always sound like a mndln. Have you checked out similar instruments? Especially if you're playing harp tunes - there are others that offer more sonic dimension.

[Caleb]

Is this common? I've never experienced anything like. Mandolin 'finicky'? Among instruments I've played, mndln is among the least of these adjectives. Short scale, high-tension, steel stringed instruments simply don't offer the tonal variations and colorings of others (longer scale, lower-tension..) - it's just physics. If you're not particularly enjoying the sonic offerings of mndln, why pursue it?

Frustration isn't something you should be experiencing - with anything concerning learning music. If you don't sound the way you want to sound, there are any number of ways to improve. But the mndln will always sound like a mndln. Have you checked out similar instruments? Especially if you're playing harp tunes - there are others that offer more sonic dimension.

I hear what you are saying. I get that a mandolin will always sound like a mandolin: but just listen to how buttery and smooth the tone is from players like Kym Warner or Tim O’Brien vs the clangy sounds of someone sawing away at chords at the average jam session or YouTube video.

Here is an example of my own jangly/clangy tone. My playing here is decent, but the tone leaves much to be desired IMO.
https://youtu.be/ZtBLSGqSGDM

[Dan in NH]

People repeatedly say that mandolin tone comes from the right hand, much like guitar tone comes from the right hand, but I find that whenever I’m dissatisfied with the noise my mandolin makes I can usually trace it back to a failure of my left hand not fingering the note in the sweet spot.

Which is why the two things I am working on right now are open in string picking exercises, until I can do the exercises without looking at my right hand, and then scale exercises until I can do the scales without looking at my left hand or my right hand.

I get those down so that I’m smooth and have a good tone, and then I open the music book and try to follow the tabs, and while I’m looking at the music book both my hands immediately forget everything they ever learned. And I missing notes on the fretboard, and picking wrong strings with my right hand, and everything’s all out the window.

Tommy Emmanuel said it best - “Before there can be music there must first be skill.”

[catmandu2]

Caleb, if you can convey what it is about your sound that you find lacking, a coach can suggest different approaches to experiment with. No doubt you've tried many, but with help it may be easier to isolate/correct. As well, the sound you're hearing may not be what others hear coming from your instrument. Have you played mandolins other than Collings?

[Caleb]

Caleb, if you can convey what it is about your sound that you find lacking, a coach can suggest different approaches to experiment with. No doubt you've tried many, but with help it may be easier to isolate/correct. As well, the sound you're hearing may not be what others hear coming from your instrument. Have you played mandolins other than Collings?

I had an Eastman for a long time, and a Kentucky before that. The Collings is a way better instrument than them both.

[catmandu2]

I had an Eastman for a long time, and a Kentucky before that. The Collings is a way better instrument than them both.

Certainly. But Collings has a signature sound - different than many others. Ever traipse into a 'mandolin' store and play something you like from the selection?

[Caleb]

Certainly. But Collings has a signature sound - different than many others. Ever traipse into a 'mandolin' store and play something you like from the selection?

For sure! I played a Weber once that was very nice. Had a drier sound than my Collings whose tone is a bit more modern to my ears.

[catmandu2]

Success!

[Caleb]

I’m done buying mandolins though. I know, I know…

[tmsweeney]

Certainly. But Collings has a signature sound - different than many others. Ever traipse into a 'mandolin' store and play something you like from the selection?

I can attest to Collings having a signature sound, I have the F5 and a friend of mine has an MT with F holes I believe his is a few years newer than mine. Play them together (and especially with a non Collings mandolin in the mix) they sound very very similar, and both have the "signature" sound.

[Nashville]

You can be a bit sloppy on guitar and get away with it, but the mandolin requires a bit more precision. As a guitar player that recently took up mandolin (8 years ago) I also find it more challenging whereas guitar had become 2nd nature. But just keep at it and it all gets better. Like anything.

[Caleb]

I can attest to Collings having a signature sound, I have the F5 and a friend of mine has an MT with F holes I believe his is a few years newer than mine. Play them together (and especially with a non Collings mandolin in the mix) they sound very very similar, and both have the "signature" sound.

Collings mandolins seem to have a more modern sound, but their guitars have the traditional tone many are seeking after. Always strikes me as kind of odd.

[Ky Slim]

I hear what you are saying. I get that a mandolin will always sound like a mandolin: but just listen to how buttery and smooth the tone is from players like Kym Warner or Tim O’Brien vs the clangy sounds of someone sawing away at chords at the average jam session or YouTube video.

Here is an example of my own jangly/clangy tone. My playing here is decent, but the tone leaves much to be desired IMO.
https://youtu.be/ZtBLSGqSGDM

Caleb, your tone and playing both sound quite nice to me. You mentioned that you only play every once in a while. "Buttery and smooth" tone comes from frequent playing over long periods of time. Kind of like pro golfers hitting hundreds of balls everyday, pro musicians are putting in a lot of time all the time.

[Dan in NH]

One thing you often hear people talk about is “Start every practice session by drilling the fundamentals for 20 minutes.” And as a guitar player I made an effort to practice at least a little bit every day, but I never spent 20 minutes practicing the fundamentals. I just picked up the guitar and played whatever I was working on at that time. And I didn’t have any huge difficulty achieving reasonable proficiency.

I’m finding Mandolin very much more unforgiving, and very much more necessary to practice fundamental picking & fingering exercises daily.

At least at my current level I do.

[CES]

Regarding the 4 finger chop chords, you can survive, and even thrive, without them, but they're achievable. I wear large size gloves but don't have long fingers, so I'm absolutely not in the Mike Marshall hand size league (or any musical league he may be in, for that matter, lol), but even with the bigger mitts I struggled with the 4 finger chords at first. I'm also a recovering guitar player (who still plays a lot of guitar and a little Uke, bass, and banjo). One thing that helped me on the 4 finger chords was to start working on them further up the neck. So, make the classic 4 finger G shape, but root it up at the 5th or 6th fret where the ring and pinky finger stretches aren't as daunting. When it gets comfortable up there, gradually work in down the neck a fret or two at a time. No need to kill yourself with this...do it for a couple of minutes a day after you're good and warmed up, and don't move lower until you can cleanly get them fretted with relative ease in the upper positions.

Just a thought. It also helped my rhythm to just chop along with whatever music was on in the house. Not necessarily fretting the chords, but just working that right hand snare, then playing around with the rhythm a bit within the context of the song once you're in the groove. For playing more contemporary non-BG and non-IT stuff, banging on 2 finger open chords shouldn't be that much different than strumming a guitar in similar fashion.

Try not to get too frustrated, and give it some time

[Caleb]

Caleb, your tone and playing both sound quite nice to me. You mentioned that you only play every once in a while. "Buttery and smooth" tone comes from frequent playing over long periods of time. Kind of like pro golfers hitting hundreds of balls everyday, pro musicians are putting in a lot of time all the time.

Thanks. There was a time when I played A LOT of mandolin, and my tone was a lot better. Oddly enough, it was when I had my old Eastman. It had a sweet spot that once in a while I’d dial into. The Collings is a better mandolin but after I got it I stopped playing as much, just got more heavily into guitar (my first love).

[Dan in NH]

CES, what is IT stuff?

[Mainer73]

CES, what is IT stuff?

Most likely Irish Trad