Roland White's Randy Wood #2 on eBay

[Tatoosh]

Certainly Roland White isn't in the same league as Thomas Jefferson. It’s a whole other scale of fame. Thomas is a major factor in the history of our country and is even on our money for cripes sake! Roland, as admired and talented as he is, will not go down in history the way Tom has unless he shoots a president.

I used the Beatles as an example because although they are superstars, they are already starting to fade from our collective memories. Unfortunately, even today, if you asked 1000 people at random if they recognized the name Roland White, probably only a few would. There is just too much competition grabbing at our ears for Roland to remain well known into the future. Where are all those famous doo-wop singers now? The tin pan alley stars?

Think about it, how many musicians working around 1900 can you name? Some of them could command concert ticket prices in excess of $200 back then. Everyone knew them. Today, they’re unknown. How much would you pay for their instruments?

I’m in no way trying to put down Roland. I’m just commenting on the fickleness of human nature. We’re moving on. Now it’s hip-hop and rap. What’s next? And, what’s next to fall away from our collective consciousness? Could it be bluegrass?

[kudzugypsy]

well heres another good example - remember gruhn had mother maybelle's 27 gibson l-5 for $500,000. now, that is a long way from rolands price - but it didnt sell (until the same guy who bought monroes f5 stepped in). we are talking about possibly the most important instrument in country music history here, one that she play exclusively until her death and that all of the classic carter family songs were recorded with. i will bet with good odds, that 95% of todays country music fans couldnt tell you who the carter family was - even though they were the biggest stars of the first decades of recorded country music.

...but you hear about people paying that amount and more for ex-clapton, hendrix, etc, etc stuff that they used on one record or tour.

[BlueMountain]

So, the mandolin has a bid on eBay at $36,000. That's great. And having the bidder ID private in that stratospheric realm is a good idea. I think people with that sort of money would often prefer not to flash it around.

However I went to Roland White's web site and saw that he teaches BEGINNER mandolin lessons in Nashville for $30 an hour! Listen, I'll betcha I'd play better after TWELVE HUNDRED LESSONS from Roland White at $30 an hour, even on a $100 Chinese A style, than after simply paying the same $36,000 for his mandolin.

[mandoman4807]

I don't get it. This mandolin is called a F 5 Master Model copy.... The fretboard doesn't have the proper extension over the body, and the Gibson logo is way too close to the D string tuner shaft. And the finish is not varnish

I am sincere when I say I do not get it. I would think a copy would be a true copy. I don`t mean to nit-pick here, just curious!

Darrell

[AlanN]

Back then, certain details were considered unimportant. Now, different story.

[Joe Parker]

Mandoman-to get all the details of an original it would be referred to as a replica,not a copy.Look in your Dictionary. As to future speculation about who will remember Roland and the effect of memory on the value of his mandolin;I would say that true talent has a life of its own and will endure.If you need proof,listen to classical music,Ellington,Wes Mongomery,Hank,Lefty,Lester,or Mon. As long as recorded music is available it will have value to future fans and collectors.Personally,I don't think any one buys an instrument like this soley for the purpose of future gain.I would bet that whom ever ends up with Roland's mandolin has been affected by all the great music and history it represents. If I had the money I'd pay him to keep it. This subject is really almost morbid,I mean really! Roland is alive and well and just decided to play a different mandolin. I hope he is around another 35 years to wear the new one out too!

Joe Parker

[Bill Halsey]

Is copyright infringement an issue here? Of course, a maker can do anything s/he wishes until the instrument enters commerce, and in most cases wrong use of the Gibson script logo probably fulfills a primarily esthetic function at the onset, as much as a scroll or a flowerpot. Imitation is flattery, but it's when cash and goods trade hands that it becomes a point of law. Thoughts? Clarence Darrow, ya listenin'?

[mandoman4807]

Gee, thanks JPP. I didn`t think I was going to get a lesson in the difference between replica and copy. To me they mean the same thing.. But thanks anyway


Darrell

[kudzugypsy]

darrell, here is the condensed answer.
there were probably 2 people making f5 mandos way back in the 60's. Randy wood and maybe CE ward (maybe a FEW others) gibson f5s didnt look ANYTHING like either the originals or what you see today - they were as roland once put it "stage props".
randy had been converting older a&f styles to the longer scale f5 design for a while and then said why not just build a f5 "copy". why did he put gibson on the headstock - i dont know - even the great monteleone and gilchrist ALSO put "the gibson" on their first batch of instruments until their name could stand on its own.
dont forget, this was years before CAD machines, stew-mac kits, f5 blueprints and pre-cut inlays - it was entirely hand made. the HUNDREDS of individual luthiers today making f5 copies could essentially trace their roots back to these very FIRST copies - it all started here in the late 60's. remember too, that these were made for working bg musicians (hardly making any money) and were really never intended to be "boutique" copies - they were working mans mandolins.

as a side note, it has always sadded me that randy's work is not getting the attention it rightfully deserves. it seems everyone wants the hot luthier on the scene and nobody notices the man who started it all. i couldnt believe gruhn dissed randy once when talking about the greatest luthiers alive - when randy was 1/3 of GTR, which put george gruhn on the map....oh well.

[fredfrank]

Why did he put gibson on the headstock - i dont know - dont forget, this was years before CAD machines, stew-mac kits, f5 blueprints and pre-cut inlays - it was entirely hand made. the HUNDREDS of individual luthiers today making f5 copies could essentially trace their roots back to these very FIRST copies - it all started here in the late 60's.

Well, he just barely got "The Gibson" on the headstock! Any further off, and it'd be on the side of the peghead. Even though it was handmade, I'm sure there's more to this story as to why it's so far off.

[f5loar]

My first "The Gibson" Loar like copy F5 was made by CE Ward in Charlotte,NC. This was 1970. I paid $550 for it and sold it a few months later for $600 because it hurt my fingers. It was a rough copy but from a distance looked the part. It sounded great but many details were way off.
Most noted was the neck angle, hence the hardness to finger it. Randy's early ones and MK Kirks were rough on details too but seemed to finger a lot better. Before Roland got his Wood No. 2 he had a 50's F5. Old recordings of the Ky. Colonels confirm he got by just fine.

[Luthier Vandross]

Questions, which ones would you like answered first?

1. The tuners were changed from standard, to reverse. Gibson 'under' shaft tuners require different headstock inlay arrangements, than reverse. See the dark features, just below the tuner shafts? Waverlys were a recent addition.

2. The extention was asked for.

3. Gibson gained many benefits, especially back then, by ANYONE but Gibson using their logo, it was a common practice.

This mandolin is a cannon, I played it every day for 2-3 months last year, when it was in for tweaking. It's the second loudest of the three, and the best playing out of the bunch. (sorry Red, I can't play on your bridges!)

When you look at it, and think it's crude, you are mistaken. It's a fine instrument, purposeful tool, that hammered millions of loving notes into history. It's one of the first righteous copies ever made. Respect it. (or feel my wrath... whatever that is.)



Miles

[Luthier Vandross]

We all know who Roland is, and for his sake I hope he gets a fortune, but I question the long-term value of that mandolin. #For someone that money is not an issue, maybe it would be a bargin!

Hey, it's only a modern RW Master Model, and a Gilchrist worth of dinars.. a bargain?

Hell yes.

But then again... I may be a little .. uhh..



Miles

[Rroyd]

Welcome back after way too long, Miles. #We've missed your posts. #I have a few pictures of No. 4, which I will post when the computer with that capability gets back #from the repair shop. #It has also been around the block a few times; the worst being an airlines injury caused by its being dumped out of its case and landing on the bridge, which split the top from the top of the bass f hole to the rim. #Wood repaired it, but the owner chose to not have the cosmetics redone. The top was quite thin, but has held up for about 35 years, and it is an absolutely great sounding mandolin.

[bsimmers]

I hope he gets a bundle. Roland White is a real musician. An artist. His phrasing and energy on the mandolin is like no one else. The mandolin has a great sound, and I'm confident he has kept it well maintained.
By the way, who is Thomas Jefferson? Is he the guy who was a personal friend of President Reagan's? Or was Jefferson one of Monroe's early bluegrass boys?

[AlanN]

Roland is a guy whose style has definitely changed over the years. If you listen the the early KC, he was driving and loud, with a neo-Monroe bent. Later on, he became more lyrical, with finesse and more of a 'quiet' presence. Either way, he's a joy to listen to.

[Darryl Wolfe]

My Randy Wood F-12 conversion was done slightly before these first few scratch mandolins. #They all had the same finish, look and feel. #The "to the left Gibson script" was an anomoly of Randy's. #The first few were all that way and the pegheads look essentially identical. #Of note also is dot at third fret, 12th fret dots kinda close together and mixed bindings. #The finish was lacquer sanding sealer on these first instruments. This mando had modern tuners which I too, had converted later to the older style

[f5loar]

Didn't Thomas Jefferson play mandolin with Curtis Blackwell & Randal Collins and the Dixie Bluegrass Boys in the 70s? Or was his name Larry?
Anyway you can still buy a Randy Wood F5 with a MasterCard.
The chance to own Roland White's RandyWood....priceless!
I would say with one bid already it will be sold even if it don't meet reserve.

[Darryl Wolfe]

Headstock

[flatthead]

I played this last weekend with Larry Jefferson. He still has the same F-12 that Randy Wood worked on in the 60's. It still has no finish on the top and a price tag sticker on the peghead... and still sounds great...

[f5loar]

I rememeber when it was still an F12. It had the highest bridge I've ever seen. Larry could peel bark with that one.