Silk & Steel on old instrument??

[Paul B]

I have a set of steel & silk strings (regular 11- 40).

Would it be safe to put these on an oval hole early 20th century mandolin (Weymann).

I can't figure if the tension would damage the neck body which has no truss rod. On the other hand, reading generally these strings are lower tension and often recommended for people suffering RSI or arthritis - making me thing I don't need to worry about the tension.

Previously on this instrument I've used D'Addario J73 Phosphor Bronze Light (.010-.038).

Any advice from people stringing antique instruments?

Much appreciated.

[Pappyrich]

I use silk&steel strings on my 1919 Gibson A1 and like them very much. No apparent problems structurally.

[Paul B]

Cheers Richard
That's good to know. Those old A1's always seemed better construction than the earlier Weymann's. At least though we are talking here about non F models which is reassuring. I say that because whenever I've looked at what instruments people are stringing with silk & steel they always appear to be more modern F models.

[Dave Hicks]

I have GHS S&S on a 1916 Gibson A-0, with no problem I've seen.

D.H.

[rcc56]

1. After doing some research on string tension in connection with a pre-steel string Martin guitar I was repairing, I found that surprisingly enough, silk and steel string sets are not much lower in tension then standard steel string sets of similar gauge.

2. Unfortunately, GHS does not provide tension figures for their string sets. A set of D'Addario J73's exert approximately 150 lbs of tension on a mandolin. That's about the maximum I would want to use on a Weymann.

3. Weymann mandolins are lighter in construction than Gibson oval hole mandolins, so I'm afraid that using a Gibson as a reference for the suitability of a set of strings for a Weymann is comparing apples to oranges.

Since the GHS silk and steel set is heavier in gauge than the J73's, I would consider installing them on a Weymann to be risky, unless someone from GHS can provide tension specs on their set.

Bear in mind that the trebles on the GHS set are heavier than the J73's, so even if the tension on the silk and steel G and D strings turns out to be a little lower than a similar standard string, you're still probably going to be increasing the overall tension on your mandolin.

Since I work on antique instruments, I know from experience that repairing instruments that have been overstrung for even a short time can be difficult, expensive, and sometimes impossible. My inclination would be to stick with the J73's.

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OK, while I couldn't find any specs for their mandolin strings, I did find GHS tension info for their guitar strings. Their silk and steel guitar strings are only 0 to 3 lbs. lower in tension than their phosphor bronze strings of the same gauge.
It feel it safe to infer that the same is true for their mandolin strings. So it appears to me that you will indeed be loading down your mandolin more if you use the GHS set.

[pops1]

The GHS guitar strings, as rcc56 says, are lower in tension by a very slight amount. They also have smaller wound strings than the similar set of PB, so I would say they have equal or more tension if all strings are the same diameter. I would stay with the lighter set. I have found some instruments sound better with lighter tension strings and don't need the extra tension to sound good.

[mandroid]

a 10 - 36 will pull less , maybe just use lighter A's & E's to get the tone of the G&D's
... winding wire differences..

[Paul B]

Thanks for responding with some apparent knowledge of the Weymann. I had logged out of this thread and only came back late last night. In the interim I decided to chance it and fitted the GHS S&S strings. The first thing is I really like them, they suit my ear nicely on this instrument - whereas I've always had a sort of meh feeling towards the J73's.

Now that aside you have sufficiently disturbed me that I am going to remove them.

A shame, they feel nice, they sound nice, they look nice and they don't appear to be stressing the instrument but I get that we don't necessarily see the damage being done.

Ah well. Disappointed. But the Weymann may live a while longer thanks to all you folks in the Cafe!

1. After doing some research on string tension in connection with a pre-steel string Martin guitar I was repairing, I found that surprisingly enough, silk and steel string sets are not much lower in tension then standard steel string sets of similar gauge.

2. Unfortunately, GHS does not provide tension figures for their string sets. A set of D'Addario J73's exert approximately 150 lbs of tension on a mandolin. That's about the maximum I would want to use on a Weymann.

3. Weymann mandolins are lighter in construction than Gibson oval hole mandolins, so I'm afraid that using a Gibson as a reference for the suitability of a set of strings for a Weymann is comparing apples to oranges.

Since the GHS silk and steel set is heavier in gauge than the J73's, I would consider installing them on a Weymann to be risky, unless someone from GHS can provide tension specs on their set.

Bear in mind that the trebles on the GHS set are heavier than the J73's, so even if the tension on the silk and steel G and D strings turns out to be a little lower than a similar standard string, you're still probably going to be increasing the overall tension on your mandolin.

Since I work on antique instruments, I know from experience that repairing instruments that have been overstrung for even a short time can be difficult, expensive, and sometimes impossible. My inclination would be to stick with the J73's.

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OK, while I couldn't find any specs for their mandolin strings, I did find GHS tension info for their guitar strings. Their silk and steel guitar strings are only 0 to 3 lbs. lower in tension than their phosphor bronze strings of the same gauge.
It feel it safe to infer that the same is true for their mandolin strings. So it appears to me that you will indeed be loading down your mandolin more if you use the GHS set.

[kymandolin29]

for me ..its silk steel on all mandolins....all they r great strings

[Paul B]

for me ..its silk steel on all mandolins....all they r great strings

Yes great. But do you put them on antique instruments?

[rcc56]

It doesn't hurt to use a little prudence on a 100 year old instrument. They're not making any more of them.

If you're looking for a different sound from your phosphor bronze set, you might try using nickel strings for the 24 and 38. D'Addario sells them in singles, their part numbers LE024 and LE038. They're actually slightly lower in tension than phosphor bronze.

[brunello97]

Can you post a photo of the early Weymann mandolin that you have?

A 'Mandolute'?

When it comes to stringing, comping one of these to an archtop, solidly necked Gibson wouldn't be the wise way to go.

Why not play it safe(r) for a spell with some GHS ultralights?

Or better yet, some Dogal Calace Dolce strings? You'll love those.

Not cheap, but they'll last you X times longer and sound wonderful.

I've got the Dogal medios on my Gibson now.


Mick

[allenhopkins]

I have a guitar which has been estimated to be from approximately 1860 that I use for historical programs. Parlor size, no maker's label, but (surprisingly) X-braced, so one suspects an anonymous luthier copying Martin bracing patterns.

Clearly designed for gut strings, but pretty sturdy, so I have strung in with Silk & Steel Extra Light strings (it has a pin bridge). However, with some trepidation about the higher tension, I de-tune it after every performance, and keep it stored under slack tension.

Not everyone would be wiling to keep a de-tuned instrument and just raise it to concert pitch before using it in performance. I am determined to keep the li'l rascal operable as long as can be. It's made it through 150+ years and I'm hoping for another century.

[Paul B]

Hi

Yes a Mandolute. It's far from pristine but it plays and it's stable.
I just did a search for those strings. I'm in the UK - looks like an import only, though I may stump up and give them a shot but with £10 postage it's moving into the luxury department as far as string prices go.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestion and here's a picture ...

Can you post a photo of the early Weymann mandolin that you have?

A 'Mandolute'?

When it comes to stringing, comping one of these to an archtop, solidly necked Gibson wouldn't be the wise way to go.

Why not play it safe(r) for a spell with some GHS ultralights?

Or better yet, some Dogal Calace Dolce strings? You'll love those.

Not cheap, but they'll last you X times longer and sound wonderful.

I've got the Dogal medios on my Gibson now.


Mick

[Paul B]

It doesn't hurt to use a little prudence on a 100 year old instrument. They're not making any more of them.

Yes you are right there. That's why I posted the question. The cafe is great, it's so engaging here.Thanks for helping out.