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Thread: A structured approach to modern songs

  1. #1
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    Default A structured approach to modern songs

    I’ve been playing fiddle music on the mando for a few years now, it’s been great. There are good recognised pathways to take you right through the process.
    Now I’m starting to drift towards playing band music (rock/pop/country ect).
    However I remember from my largely unsuccessful guitar years that bouncing from one rock song to the next doesn’t really build any fundamentals.

    Anyone got any resources/methods they can share?
    A mandolin

  2. #2

    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    Learn to play the instrument. Then you can apply the instrument to whatever type of music you wnt to play

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  4. #3
    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    You can "play" an instrument for hours at a time without really improving - which includes just jamming on songs, playing with friend etc. You may get better, but without focus, it may take a lot longer.

    Focused practice is usually the answer. The difference in Practice and Play is simply this - when Practicing, you have a specific goal that is achievable in the time you have to practice (whether that's 10 minutes or 2 hours). Playing is where you combine those skills you've practiced to have fun and enjoy the fruits of your labor. It's sort of like work and vacation - work is the thing you do to be able to afford the vacation

    Start by answering the big question - why are you playing music? Or, why are you playing a particular instrument? Do you want to be in a touring band? Want to write and record your own songs? What to play confidently at a jam? Want to just play at home with friends / family? etc. Whatever the answer, you can't really practice this goal. So, break that main goal down into smaller goals.

    Say you want to be able to play at any jam. Great, then figure out what do you need to know to do that? Among other things, you'd need at least:
    + Understanding of chord theory and where chords sit
    + Understanding of scales and how to play them
    + Understanding of playing rhythm and timing
    + Strong picking hand technique

    There's probably more, but good start there. Again, you can't practice "understanding chord theory" and etc - so break those down to smaller pieces.

    For the chords, you'd need to know at least the below
    + How to spell / create chords
    + How to Harmonize chords in a scale
    + Basic progressions (like 1 4 5) in all keys

    Now, you've come to something you can practice likely - but if those topics are still too big, break them down even more.
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    Registered User Charlie Bernstein's Avatar
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    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    Regardless of type of music, for me, the two things that help me are woodshedding alone and playing with other people.
    Gibson A-Junior snakehead (Keep on pluckin'!)

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    small instrument, big fun Dan in NH's Avatar
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    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Regardless of type of music, for me, the two things that help me are woodshedding alone and playing with other people.
    I am discovering that with our chosen instrument there is quite a bit of difference between playing something, whether it’s a fiddle tune or a Beatles tune, by yourself and playing something, again either Bluegrass or Pop, with other people. The mandolin has a role in an ensemble. In a well run ensemble you’ll get a chance to solo and really shine. When playing by yourself you have to do the melody and the accompaniment. Fortunately I think the mandolin excels at chord melody.

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    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    I think at the most fundamental level, we improve the best when we identify a weakness and then work through activities that address that weakness.

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    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    Of course there are all the foot-tappers (Yay!) who accompany their mandolin.
    And also, as you up the tempo the need for accompaniment decreases, as it does when you start using instruments with serious sustain.
    These three factors can create structure with not a lot of extra effort.

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    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoj View Post
    I think at the most fundamental level, we improve the best when we identify a weakness and then work through activities that address that weakness.
    Very well put. This is advice I try to give to my students.

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    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Bernstein View Post
    Regardless of type of music, for me, the two things that help me are woodshedding alone and playing with other people.
    Likewise. And speaking of playing with other people, whereabouts are you in Maine Charlie? I'm in Hiram and having trouble finding others to play with consistently. Playing by myself only goes so far...

  14. #10
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    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    As to the OP's question; since you're still getting started, I can't see (from my experience) anything wrong with continuing your current approach. I myself played "fiddle music" exclusively for many years, on fiddle and then later, mandolin. I always limited myself because I thought I was a one trick pony but realized that my efforts to play in many keys and get good chord, and harmony understanding enabled me to start playing modern songs (80s). This was mainly just for fun messing around at parties and with non-trad musicians. My point is that developing any kind of musicality transfers between genres. As a beginner, I don't think you need to take a completely structured approach per se. Just get the songs in your head and try to find them on the instrument. I WOULD say, find the chords and changes, ad well as being able to pick the bones of the melody. That should get you off and running. Really they're no different than learning fiddle tunes. Now if you want to sing and play, then that's a little different.

  15. #11

    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    No matter what you are playing try to learn why some things sound right and other things don’t. Try to figure out not just the chord changes but how the notes in those chords are related. The figure out how different notes feel against those chords. You’ll start to hear intervals and from there it is basically just legos… putting the things you like together in different ways to get the sound or effect you’re after. Also practice your techniques… even ones you think won’t be useful can at least serve so dexterity purpose.

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    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    My early journey path was mostly fiddle tunes collecting. The first branch was to assess the chords for those fiddle tunes. This, in turn, brought me deeper into chord theory. Understanding a 12 bar Blues. Understanding 1-4-5 progressions and iterations. Eventually, adding minor chords, and hearing them in the chord progressions. All the while increasing your repertoire in course. Pop, Rock, and Country, 80, 90% can be played just knowing your 1-4-5. But if you don't know what 1-4-5 means, Google Nashville numbering system. 30 years later, I find the key. I find the first (chord) change. I find the second change. Chances are it reminds me of a similar tune. The only thing different, I can do it quicker.

  18. #13
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    Quote Originally Posted by mbruno View Post
    You can "play" an instrument for hours at a time without really improving - which includes just jamming on songs, playing with friend etc. You may get better, but without focus …
    Just have to say that I’m loving Matt Bruno’s style of teaching, I think he has a gift that really benefits the community. Everything in that post is on point and easily digestible. If you haven’t already, check out his website.

    I agree 100% with catmandu. Learn your instrument. Master the fundamentals, then for the rest of your life, continue learning and polishing. Matt’s roadmap above is a good approach at minimum.

    Learn your instrument - then make whatever music you want on it.
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    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    Quote Originally Posted by thesecretmandolinist View Post
    No matter what you are playing try to learn why some things sound right and other things don’t. Try to figure out not just the chord changes but how the notes in those chords are related. The figure out how different notes feel against those chords. You’ll start to hear intervals and from there it is basically just legos… putting the things you like together in different ways to get the sound or effect you’re after. Also practice your techniques… even ones you think won’t be useful can at least serve so dexterity purpose.
    A far more articulate way of communicating what I was trying to explain. Thank you! Good insight there .

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    Default Re: A structured approach to modern songs

    I'd recommend a good teacher for a while too. A good teacher will bring so much to the table that you never knew was there and pick up on things that might be holding back your progress, or building up issues that will need to be surmounted further down the road.

    As you're interested in rock/pop etc it might be worth trying working up the techniques in the Fingerfood books by Jürg Kindle.
    I really like his approach. https://www.editionkalimba.ch/sheet-...mandolin-solo/
    Another one who has some interesting stuff to try for technique building is Marlo Strauss.
    https://www.stretta-music.uk/de/stra...nr-294344.html 6 Praeluden /9 Preludes Artistiques / 9 impromptues all have enjoyable technique building aspects embedded in interesting tunes & harmonies.

    It's well worth getting into regular lessons to keep things moving forward and have someone who can introduce you to whole areas you may otherwise never have known about.
    Eoin



    "Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin

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