Mandolin is guitar upside down?

[Charlie Bernstein]

Double Stops – Playing two notes at once on adjacent strings is a hallmark of Chuck Berry and Johnny B. Goode makes heavy use of the technique.

Yup. In blues, country, and rock guitar, it's virtually universal. I think the only genres where you can get away with never barring two strings with one finger are classical, folk, and jazz.

[Charlie Bernstein]

A mandolin is a mandolin, not an upside down guitar, not a fretted , plucked fiddle er excuse me violin; not a ukulele. If you are going to play mandolin, LEARN HOW!!! Don’t even try to learn to adapt your guitar playing to a mandolin, if that is what you want STICK WITH THE GUITAR. A mandolin is a great instrument in its own right, treat it as such

I heartily agree. But knowing guitar chords does help me figure out mandolin chords. What I know I use. No crime in that.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Okay, I'll amend that to say it's something I never ran into while playing Blues, Jazz, and "American Fingerstyle" for 30-odd years on guitar. . . .

I assume you're talking about a "bent" index or other finger, and not pressing straight down with just the fingertip? . . .

Interesting! A good example of different strokes. I'm mainly a blues guitar guy — acoustic and electric, standard and open tuning, finger-style and melodic. I flatten my first, second, third, and fourth fingers all the time. Why not?

[Jim Garber]

Yes. A guitar is strung like an upside-down bass guitar.

Hmmmm… do you mean a mandolin is strung like an upside-down bass guitar? A guitar is strung like a bass guitar with extra strings.

[mandroid]

Circle of 5ths adds a # in the key signature in one direction ,

where the other way it adds a flat symbol in order, in 4ths.

FCGDAEB <...> BEADGCF

[Mnemonic BEAD Go Catch Fish .. lingers to this day]

[tmsweeney]

FCGDAEB <...> BEADGCF

Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle

Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles Father

[Hudmister]

So, a right-handed guitar player can play a left-handed mandolin upside down and use guitar chords?

[Kenny]

So, a right-handed guitar player can play a left-handed mandolin upside down and use guitar chords?

Let us know how that goes! [Says the guy who’s given up bass for mandolin.]

[CarlM]

Double Stops – Playing two notes at once on adjacent strings is a hallmark of Chuck Berry and Johnny B. Goode makes heavy use of the technique.

I am not talking about double stops. I am talking about playing chords, though the technique can be used on double stops as well. For example an E minor chord on guitar, can be played with one finger pressing the second fret on both the fourth and fifth string if you have large fingers. Similarly an A or E chord can be played with two fingers The same approach can be used on mandolin. If your fingers are large it is done with the tip, not mini bars or flattening the finger. Doc and Merle used the ends of their fingers to do it.

[Zardoz]

I can't believe no one else has said this so I will - a mandolin is not an upside down guitar, a guitar is an upside down mandolin.

[Charlie Bernstein]

Hmmmm… do you mean a mandolin is strung like an upside-down bass guitar? A guitar is strung like a bass guitar with extra strings.

Ugh! Yes. Now excuse me while I go fire my prufe reeder.

[jaycat]

Similarly an A or E chord can be played with two fingers

I can play an A chord with one finger! Send in 20 boxtops to learn my secret.

[foldedpath]

Interesting! A good example of different strokes. I'm mainly a blues guitar guy — acoustic and electric, standard and open tuning, finger-style and melodic. I flatten my first, second, third, and fourth fingers all the time. Why not?

I flatten my fingers playing Blues on guitar too. It was the vertical touch of an un-bent fingertip that I never used on two adjacent guitar strings because it could never cover both strings at once. Works a treat for two adjacent courses on mandolin though. Very useful in Irish/Scottish trad for those "modal A" 22OO and "modal E" O22O chords.

[journeybear]

No.

It's a misnomer, and it's misleading.

OK, sure, the lowest four strings of a guitar are EADG and the strings of a mandolin are GDAE. So some guitar chords - but only those being fingered on the lowest four strings - will resemble mirror images of mandolin chords. For instance, 0023 on a mandolin corresponds to 3200 on guitar - those strings only. But that's about the only guitar chord whose appearance works in this way for me.

[catmandu2]

Of course it (the 'mirror imaging' of [bass] gtr and mndln 'chords') is precisely consistent throughout the entire fingerboard. Intervallic series are just that - no matter the instrument

There are innumerable relationships throughout music and 'theory' - that evince in commonalities among instruments. The more you explore, the more you'll find.

[Charlie Bernstein]

No.

It's a misnomer, and it's misleading.

OK, sure, the lowest four strings of a guitar are EADG and the strings of a mandolin are GDAE. So some guitar chords - but only those being fingered on the lowest four strings - will resemble mirror images of mandolin chords. For instance, 0023 on a mandolin corresponds to 3200 on guitar - those strings only. But that's about the only guitar chord whose appearance works in this way for me.

If it's a misconception, it's a useful one. I flip guitar cowboy chords for most mando cowboy chords, though you're right that some are more awkward than others. (For example, I hate the mando E 1220.)

I use flipped guitar shapes for a few bar chords, too, but for some, it's generally easier to bar the mando cowboy shapes than try to imitate guitar bar chords.

For instance, my mando cowboy D is 2002, which is just an upside-down guitar D. But my bar E chord is 4224, which is virtually useless on guitar.

Some guitar bars are easy to flip and use, though. For instance, a mando cowboy G is 0023, as mentioned above — a turned-over guitar G. A bar A, one step up, is 2245, same as a common guitar bar shape, flipped.

One way or another, I build most my mando chords based on guitar shapes — though I must admit, the mando G 4523 isn't something I'd ever have any reason to flip and use on guitar.

In short, it's all about convenience. I'm still a novice, so I take whatever shortcuts I can find.

[Steve Ostrander]

The tunings are acronyms. That’s where the similarity ends. Guitar is tuned in fourths, mandolin is tuned in fifths. I would not approach mandolin learning as an upside-down guitar.

[EdHanrahan]

Just slightly off topic, but probably helpful to those =at the level of= wading thru various chord shapes:

It took me a while to, duuh, realize that, when reading notation, guitar and mandolin, for the E and D strings, are ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL!! It's just that guitar sounds an octave lower than written (THAT only took me 5 decades to realize!), but reading/playing them is the same.

And it helps to notice that the other mandolin strings, A & G, have the same notes / locations as on guitar, but in different octaves.

Personal comment: Early on, I did find the "upside down guitar" concept helpful in finding chord shapes, especially if you remember trivia such as the D chord having an F# note on guitar's lowest string, even if it's not normally played. But as a major concept to hang all mandolin learning on? Not so much.

[Dan in NH]

Guitar is tuned in fourths, mandolin is tuned in fifths. I would not approach mandolin learning as an upside-down guitar.

As has already been mentioned in this thread, fifths ascending is fourths descending

[Jim Garber]

Mandolin = ɹɐʇᴉnפ or Mandolin ≠ ɹɐʇᴉnפ

Maybe for a tee-shirt or bumper sticker?

[Charlie Bernstein]

I flatten my fingers playing Blues on guitar too. It was the vertical touch of an un-bent fingertip that I never used on two adjacent guitar strings because it could never cover both strings at once. Works a treat for two adjacent courses on mandolin though. Very useful in Irish/Scottish trad for those "modal A" 22OO and "modal E" O22O chords.

Thanks! I'll try it.

[catmandu2]

I flatten my fingers playing Blues on guitar too. It was the vertical touch of an un-bent fingertip that I never used on two adjacent guitar strings because it could never cover both strings at once. Works a treat for two adjacent courses on mandolin though. Very useful in Irish/Scottish trad for those "modal A" 22OO and "modal E" O22O chords.

I was dusting around my music room last PM and picked up a mndln I have laying around. I noticed that fretting two courses on the mndln with the fingertip felt very much the same as executing the technique on cl/fl gtr. So I measured: the span of each is about 3/8".

[Mandoplumb]

I don’t think we disagree, I certainly use and expect others to use all the knowledge they process. Basic music theory knows no specific instrument. But each instrument has its place in the overall structure of music. Anybody ever heard a 6 string “banjo”’ tuner like a guitar, REALLY sound like a banjo.

[journeybear]

No.

It's a misnomer, and it's misleading.

OK, sure, the lowest four strings of a guitar are EADG and the strings of a mandolin are GDAE. So some guitar chords - but only those being fingered on the lowest four strings - will resemble mirror images of mandolin chords. For instance, 0023 on a mandolin corresponds to 3200 on guitar - those strings only. But that's about the only guitar chord whose appearance works in this way for me.

If it's a misconception, it's a useful one. I flip guitar cowboy chords for most mando cowboy chords, though you're right that some are more awkward than others. (For example, I hate the mando E 1220.)

I don't find the notion useful, not having been a guitarist before a mandolinist. (I did go there earlier, but never really bonded. Too many strings. ) But others may find use in this. I still see the two instruments as separate, with similarities despite compelling differences. The most involving interaction betwen the two arises when playing together, and it makes more sense to learn to be able to recognize guitar chords on sight as they are, and not try to translate one or the other. This is from a mandolinist's perspective, of course.

I don't know what "cowboy chords" are. Is that another way of saying "first position chords?"

Try 1224 for E. It's easier to form, and good and strong.

In short, it's all about convenience. I'm still a novice, so I take whatever shortcuts I can find.

I think the more you play mandolin, the more you'll learn its distinct, unique character, and not need to lean on whatever steps in the process you use to achieve easy familiarity with the instrument, in and of itself. And someday you'll realize what a vastly superior instrument it is and wonder why it took you so long to attain this enlightenment. One hopes.