Closed position shapes

[rumpystumpy]

I’m working on playing some familiar tunes in entirely closed positions. It’s a surprisingly back-to-basics lesson and I’m struggling to structure a plan to develop this skill.

Currently I’m working on a tune in A in ‘position 4’ in my exercises book: Root note with the pinky, D string, 7th fret.
Just wondering what peoples preferences/advice are for this type of thing.

[Mark Gunter]

When you say “closed position shapes” in the thread title it’s not clear whether you mean chord shapes or scale patterns or just what. Sounds like you’re asking a bout melody (lead) playing, is that right?

If so, you’re on a good track. I’d suggest practicing closed position scales and arpeggios suggested by the chord progressions of the tunes you are playing.

[Mark Gunter]

I’m also wondering what exercise book you are using. To me, the A note on 3rd course fret seven can be played with the pinky from position one. Position four, I’d be playing that note with my index finger. Sorry to not be more helpful, I m just not clear on what you’re asking or expressing …

[Mandolinian]

Here are a couple suggestions:

1. Learn a bunch of tunes in each position. Seems like you're already starting to do this, but you can expand on it by learning that song wherever it's possible to play it in any octave. After that, you can also try to learn one of those tunes up the neck, but starting with a different finger, and if that seems valuable, keep doing that, starting on different fingers each time, and eventually go to another tune.
2. Scales and arpeggios. In general arpeggios are a little more important than scales, because they outline the chord, making chord voicings easier to find, but scales are also super important, because your fingers will get into the habit of connecting the dots between the I, III, V, and the I. Two octaves of course. Try learning every arpeggio starting with your first finger, then learn every arpeggio starting with your second finger, and so on. Also good to do some scales in a similar fashion, maybe spend more time on arpeggios though. To choose which one to do next, choose a pattern and stick with it. I like the circle of 5ths.
3. Take solos on songs, and only let yourself play in a certain position. I cannot stress how important this is. I've been told by Jacob Jolliff that this is what makes up most of his practicing. I'm sure he also does the other two ideas a lot, these were inspired by what he's told me.

For chords, just learn every chord. Simple (not really)! I can't offer you advice on this one, but Jacob did this one year in High School. That guy is a machine!

Hope this helped!

[rumpystumpy]

Thanks mandolinian. Arpeggios are one of those things I’ve always known about but never sure how to meaningfully employ.

Mark - yes it’s all about melody. I have become very adept at fiddle tunes in D,G, Em, Am and now I need to broaden out in all sorts of ways.

[Dave Hicks]

You might find Niles Hokkanen's (Mandocrucian on the Cafe) book Bluegrass / Up the Neck useful.

Here's Elderly's description: "Mandolin theory, techniques & improvisation. Basic yet thorough introduction to the art of bluegrass position playing and soloing. Demonstrates various chord positions and how they are used and connected together. Now includes 76-minute CD! Booklet in note/tab. 43 pp."

D.H.

[onassis]

I'm with Mark. If I were going to map out a tune in A starting with that 7th fret A on the D course, I would begin with my index finger on that A. This puts you in place to play the 5th with your middle finger (E at the 9th fret of the G course) and the 3rd with your ring finger (C# at the 11th fret of the D course). These are all strong melody notes now played with fingers other than the pinkie, which seems an easier place to start the process. Then you can work it out with the ring finger on the root, which falls right into playing out of chop chord shapes. I tend to think of having the root under the pinkie as the last thing to work on, as it's the least likely position for me to find myself in. But these things are all so circular that one inevitably leads to the next. If you start with the index finger on that A, then the next A up the neck is the 12th fret A course, played with the pinkie! Conversely, if you star with the index on the 2nd fret G string A, that 7th fret A is played with pinkie!

The circle has no beginning or end.

[mandroid]

Basiclly i use a finger reassignments to make open string chords movable up the neck..

[Bill McCall]

I’d put that A note under my ring finger. It gives you the same fingering as playing out of the big bluegrass chop chord.

If you put the A under your pinky, you might as well use the open A string.

[Mark Gunter]

I don’t have a problem with starting on a root with any finger as long as there’s a place to go on the fretboard (for instance, I wouldn’t start with the pinky on A note at 2nd fret G string lol). What I don’t understand in OP is saying you’re playing 4th position with pinky at seventh fret. 4th position in my understanding means index finger at 7th fret.