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  1. #1

    Default Ear Train

    Greetings! I'm a newcomer to the mandolin and music in general. I'm on the lookout for exercises or materials to enhance my ear (including relative pitch, chord identification, recognizing sharps/flats, etc). I've been utilizing ToneScholar (https://tonescholar.com) for ear training, but it's tailored towards voice and not geared towards instruments. Do you have any recommendations to help me develop my ear? Much appreciated!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ear Train

    Homespun has an audio course by Matt Glaser, Ear Training for Instrumentalists. I haven’t tried it but could fit your need. NFI.
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    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ear Train

    The Salzburg conservatory has an online ear trainer (no subscription etc.). I would advise the interval training and the intonation training. If you´re the original wild man from Borneo, you might want to go with the chord training... If you´re into theory and stuff try the scale exercise. There´s a bunch to do there. It´s worth nothing without understanding first what you are going to train online.

    https://musikum.at/de/services/servi...gehoertraining
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    Registered User lowtone2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ear Train

    This Jamey Aebersold ear training course is simple and straightforward. I'm sure there are many, but this one i know.

    https://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/mercha...uct_code=JETCD

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ear Train

    In addition to these I would also suggest just working on listening and learning some music by doing so and, possibly, also transcribing that music. Perhaps one exercise might be to pick a piece of music or tune that someone has already transcribed and compare what you can come up trying to do the same and comparing.
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    Default Re: Ear Train

    I agree with Jim, learn as much as you can by ear.
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    Default Re: Ear Train

    Yes, get on the Ear Train!
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    Default Re: Ear Train

    Sing the tunes you want to learn, or the exercises.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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  13. #9

    Default Re: Ear Train

    Hey, I'm a big fan of Functional Ear Trainer. I've found it to be really helpful and it's free!

  14. #10

    Default Re: Ear Train

    In addition to recognizing scale degrees and intervals (for which Functional Ear Trainer is hard to beat), you will benefit a lot from doing call-and-response exercises on your instrument. For that, I haven’t seen anything like “I Was Doing All Right” — https://www.iwasdoingallright.com/to...aining/online/

    The interface is a bit difficult, but you can choose the key, the range, and much more. It will even play little bits of jazz standards or just random melodic phrases of whatever length you specify.

    If anyone has a better tool for this please let me know!

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    Default Re: Ear Train

    I am a totally blind mandolinist. As a youth, I played violin and was able to read any score. As a much older adult, nearly 70, I had to play without being able to read the music. I've been playing the mandolin since 2017 and have really developed my ear without special classes or training. Basically, I play, with my favorite recorded music, for pure pleasure, perhaps 30 to 90 minutes a day. I have playlists that I have built, and I set playback to shuffle for a few hundred songs that I already know in my head. When I started playing again, my goal was simply to find the next correct note. Nowadays, my fingers generally know exactly where to land and I seldom miss notes at all. For me, the secret was playing what I already know in my head. I happen to be a huge fan of most popular music between 1964 and 1979 and play lots of rock, folk, country, funk, pop and whatever else turns up. I also enjoy a fair amount of classical music and Broadway shows. A lot of practicing, or simply playing for fun, where the goal is to hit the correct notes and maintain the tempo has worked extremely well for me over time. At present, I can play in pretty much any key and I have built enough brain and muscle memory that I don't have to think about where the fingers need to land -- it just took playing a lot. Have fun on your own adventure!
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  18. #12

    Default Re: Ear Train

    Quote Originally Posted by GMorgan View Post
    I am a totally blind mandolinist. As a youth, I played violin and was able to read any score. As a much older adult, nearly 70, I had to play without being able to read the music. I've been playing the mandolin since 2017 and have really developed my ear without special classes or training. Basically, I play, with my favorite recorded music, for pure pleasure, perhaps 30 to 90 minutes a day. I have playlists that I have built, and I set playback to shuffle for a few hundred songs that I already know in my head. When I started playing again, my goal was simply to find the next correct note. Nowadays, my fingers generally know exactly where to land and I seldom miss notes at all. For me, the secret was playing what I already know in my head. I happen to be a huge fan of most popular music between 1964 and 1979 and play lots of rock, folk, country, funk, pop and whatever else turns up. I also enjoy a fair amount of classical music and Broadway shows. A lot of practicing, or simply playing for fun, where the goal is to hit the correct notes and maintain the tempo has worked extremely well for me over time. At present, I can play in pretty much any key and I have built enough brain and muscle memory that I don't have to think about where the fingers need to land -- it just took playing a lot. Have fun on your own adventure!
    Thanks for the help! I was reading around more on that ToneScholar app I was using and stumbled on this article about functional ear training. Do you think this is an effective method compared to the one you're suggesting? https://tonescholar.com/blog/functio...ning-explained

  19. #13
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ear Train

    Another great benefit from regularly playing with others is it helps develop your ear (and timing, rhythm, singing, improvisation).

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    Registered User JiminRussia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ear Train

    I posted just about the same thing in another thread, but is bears repeating. I “accidentally” discovered something that really helps ear training. Well, actually it is two things that working together will help get that tune out of your head and into your muscle memory. The first step is to imprint that tune in your mind. Listening to tunes is great, but playing those tunes in your head is better. Think of them very slowly and “hear” each note individually. The second part is scales. Yes, those boring scales. The way I do it is that I use them as my warm up routine. It makes them less boring. I play mostly fiddle tunes and nearly all of the fiddle tunes that I know and/or want to play are in either A, D, or G, so I use those scales as my warmup routine. I play two octaves of each scale, both open and closed about four or five times. The open scales are played in the first position. The closed scales are really neat because they are a movable feast. By that I mean that if you remember the pattern of where the notes lie on the fret board for one key, you can move that pattern up and down the fretboard and find any key. It’s instant transposition. So if you start on the forth string, second fret (A) and play only fretted notes you are playing a closed A scale and if you remember the pattern of where the notes are you can move the whole thing up the neck two frets and you now know how to!play a closed B scale. One more fret and you are in a C scale and two more after that you are at D. Now move to the third string second fret (E), imprint the scale in your muscle memory and you now can play in E, move up one fret and it’s F two more frets and it’s G and guess what? You now can play two octaves of any Major scale and you have not moved from the first position and you only need to teach your muscle memory two patterns. With a bit of practice you can leave that capo in the case.

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    Default Re: Ear Train

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Sing the tunes you want to learn, or the exercises.
    The only ear training I ever had was transcribing tunes from records. Formal ear training requires a teacher and when I started on the mandolin in 1967 (and guitar in 1958) I couldn't afford one. As for vocal training I never had any, and I wouldn't even know where to start.

    I might exemplify with two of my favorite tunes, which I learned exclusively from records, slowing down my turntable to half speed. The first is this: Brilliancy (see Brian Oberlin's website) which I transcribed on guitar in 1965, and then learned on mandolin in 1967. It was a bit laborious, although some sections (and, of vcourse, the chords) presented themselves right away. I haven't the slightest idea how to sing it (one octave lower, of course). Perhaps a more drastic example is Fiddler's Waltz by Benny Martin where I transposed all sections, except the next-to last, almost in real time. Only fairly recently, at well over 70 (I'll be 80 in August 2024), I learned the missing section, shortly before finding it on the Traditional Tunes Archive. And, again, I haven't the slightest idea how to train my vocal cords to perform these somewhat acrobatic lines. Are there resources on the internet for this kind of training?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralph johansson View Post
    The only ear training I ever had was transcribing tunes from records. Formal ear training requires a teacher and when I started on the mandolin in 1967 (and guitar in 1958) I couldn't afford one. As for vocal training I never had any, and I wouldn't even know where to start.

    I might exemplify with two of my favorite tunes, which I learned exclusively from records, slowing down my turntable to half speed. The first is this: Brilliancy (see Brian Oberlin's website) which I transcribed on guitar in 1965, and then learned on mandolin in 1967. It was a bit laborious, although some sections (and, of vcourse, the chords) presented themselves right away. I haven't the slightest idea how to sing it (one octave lower, of course). Perhaps a more drastic example is Fiddler's Waltz by Benny Martin where I transposed all sections, except the next-to last, almost in real time. Only fairly recently, at well over 70 (I'll be 80 in August 2024), I learned the missing section, shortly before finding it on the Traditional Tunes Archive. And, again, I haven't the slightest idea how to train my vocal cords to perform these somewhat acrobatic lines. Are there resources on the internet for this kind of training?

    As usual, no reply. No one wants to share his knowledge. According to some educators singing ability is essential to mastery of the mandolin (and, I suppose, most other instruments). According to one of them: "you can't play it if you can't sing it. And another member claims that singing is easy, if you can speak you can sing. But when I ask questions hopefully to clarify the issue I hit a wall of contemptuous silence.

    The following is the first tune I worked out on the mandolin: https://www.mandoberlin.com/lessons/...ancy_Howdy.pdf which I transcribed from Howdy Forrester's recording almost 60 years ago. What kind of exercises would I need to learn this tune (one octave lower)?

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    Default Re: Ear Train

    Ralph, I don’t think there is any contempt toward you (at least none here); you are a valued member of this society; and we sometimes agree and other times disagree; but I always value your clearly educated opinion. You have a question that most of us can’t answer; I wish I could, but can’t. I have no dog in the hunt, aside from valuing your opinion, but please don’t become frustrated or disillusioned with us as a whole. You contribute a lot of good content, please don’t think you are unappreciated.

  25. #18

    Default Re: Ear Train

    Quote Originally Posted by TX2AK View Post
    Ralph, I don’t think there is any contempt toward you (at least none here); you are a valued member of this society; and we sometimes agree and other times disagree; but I always value your clearly educated opinion. You have a question that most of us can’t answer; I wish I could, but can’t. I have no dog in the hunt, aside from valuing your opinion, but please don’t become frustrated or disillusioned with us as a whole. You contribute a lot of good content, please don’t think you are unappreciated.
    I totally endorse what TX2Ak just said and wish I could have expressed it as concisely and courteously. I had been trying to frame a reply about singing but found it too difficult to express - as in "explain in words how to ride a bike.”

    Then on re-reading Ralph’s post one thing jumped out at me " I haven't the slightest idea how to train my vocal cords to perform these somewhat acrobatic lines.”

    My two cents on this comes from playing saxophone where one is expected to “sing"

    1 / not just to learn a tune by ear, but
    2 / in order to transcribe - ie to learn to play well by copying - the nuances (eg articulation, tone) of solos by the masters,
    3 / in order to “voice” - ie to use the tongue, soft palate, larynx and lungs to get good tone and transitions - very, very frequently for notes that are much higher or lower than one can sing, and
    4 / even in order to voice altissimo notes (the equivalent of harmonics on plucked strings) that are completely beyond the range of the human voice - far higher than the piano or indeed mandolin can go.

    So here’s the thing about training the vocal chords - I don't think that's the way to frame the issue - it's not about how it sounds, about singing for others, about performing, or even really about singing out loud - you probably won’t be able to make many of the notes anyway - you should hear my sax teacher singing (ouch!). One is singing to oneself - perhaps quietly, perhaps almost completely silently : almost singing in the imagination. The only sound might well be just articulations from tongue and hard palate.

    And that, in its way, is just like riding a bike - but perhaps a bit easier, you won’t fall off and hurt yourself and no-one will hear or see you. Just do it !

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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ear Train

    “You can’t play it if you can’t sing it” - I’m not a believer in that, sorry.
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    I’ve always understood that idea really to mean that if you can’t hear it in your head, you can’t play it; not that you have to be able to accurately sing it aloud. I think that’s true for me - I can read tab or standard notation (with a struggle at standard) all day, and maybe I can play a tune similar to how a machine might play it, but if I can’t hear the tune in my head and feel it, I can’t play it well. That’s me; I’m not saying I don’t believe others who say the opposite.

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    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ear Train

    That’s certainly my experience, TX2AK. I’m a baritone, and I play a lot of melodies I can’t sing, but I can hear music in my head and I try to play the music that’s in my head. That’s a bit different than “If you can’t sing it, you can’t play it.”

    I don’t think there are many people who believe that piece of advice, but there are a few who propagate it IIUC.
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    Default Re: Ear Train

    I’m with you - I can’t sing 99% of mandolin melodies at pitch! It makes sense to me through the lenses of hearing in the head, vs singing. Maybe I’m making the advice work for what I can do!!!

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    Default Re: Ear Train

    I've always taken the "if you can't sing it, you cant play it" as a comment directed at being able to identify the melody, not the tone. For instance, if you can hum the melody of a tune then you should be able to pick it out. That hum doesn't necessarily have to be on perfect pitch. At least that's how I've always looked at it.

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    Default Re: Ear Train

    As one who had voice training back in high school, the ability to adjust one's voice to the correct pitch, not just one note but a bunch of notes as in a melody, gives you the ability to identify intervals. Or more accurately, to adjust as you go. It is a bit deeper idea than what is usually 'tossed out there'.

    Sure you can do this 'in your head' so that you don't have to sing. But the muscle memory in one's vocal chords really helps your fingers and your brain. So many people think that singing can be dismissed or 'put down' as a 'me too' status meaning that "I'm cool for screwing up; Let's lower the bar together attitude".
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    Default Re: Ear Train

    I've gone through a lot of ear training "methods" - some are good, some are bad but I've learned something from every course / app etc. My favorites have been:

    1. Transcribing music - this is the best way to train your ear IMO and helps increase your abilities on your instrument. Stealing riffs and etc from your favorite artists are how you develop your voice. That's how all the best musicians from pre-internet days did it. It's tried / true and never will be the wrong way. Using tools to slow down songs are great - the Amazing Slower Downer is probably my favorite practice tool. It's almost like slowing down the record but without the pitch decay.

    2. Singing - Even if you're a horrible singer and never plan on singing in public, practicing singing is an incredibly important method of learning / training. It will help internalize the melody which makes it easier to play / memorize melodies (as said before, if you can sing it, you can play it). More importantly though, if you can sing it - you can teach it. Being able to (somewhat) accurately sing a melody is how you can tell others what the melody is without having to play it every time.

    3. Interval training - combines with Singing / solfège really well. Interval training really helps you in learning melodies on the fly and etc. Do Re Do, Do Mi Do, Do Fa Do, Do Re Mi Re Do, etc. Intervals are what we play when soloing, writing, and etc. When I started doing this (with a piano and my mandolin), I saw a HUGE impact to my ability to hear and play things that I had in my head.

    I have used a few apps in the past - functional ear training is a good example. Most apps are pretty bad and don't really have much of a benefit IMO - especially the free ones (which is understandable). You don't need apps. Just buy a cheap keyboard. The one app I really love is Nail the Pitch - aside from the Amazing Slower Downer, that's probably my most used training tool.
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