F5 Neck removal

[musicofanatic]

Dunno if this falls under the category of closely guarded trade secrets, or who might be willing to share same, but how the heck does one get the neck out of the dovetail on a traditional-design F5. I have done guitar repair professionally since 1975 and can remove a Martin guitar neck in my sleep...loosen the fretboard from the guitar top, remove the appropriate fret, drill the steam needle access hole, inject steam, apply pressure to the rear of the neck heel...if this process takes me more than 30 minutes, it's because I answered 3 phone calls and went upstairs to the kitchen to make a sandwich.

My quandary is how to apply pressure to the rear of the neck heel to push the neck free of the dovetail when this surface is covered by the "button" that is integral with the back plate of the instrument? I will mention that this is my personal instrument...lacking the experience, I would refuse the job on a customer's instrument. But it is a nice mandolin and I most certainly would rather not f*ck it up. I am confident to perform the work successfully with the proper approach. Seeking enlightenment and expressing gratitude in advance to whoever may offer it!

[amowry]

It can be done but it's rarely done, because they almost never need resetting and the joint isn't really designed for removal (typically the dovetail has less taper than a Martin joint, so it's challenging to push it out even if the back button wasn't there).

I'd look at a fretboard wedge if the neck set is really off. If for some reason I really had to remove a neck, I'd consider cutting it out and making a new neck, possibly grafting the old headstock back on.

[sunburst]

If you have re-set Gibson guitar necks then you know that the finish is applied over the neck joint, unlike Martin's where the neck and body are finished separately. The same applies to Gibson mandolins, so cutting through the finish is one of the first things to do.

1. Remove the fingerboard. It might be possible to simply release the 'board over the extender, but it is glued to the riser block so it would have to be released all the way to the edge of the body so, it might as well come off so you can see the dovetail and know where it ends. It is not conveniently located almost directly under a fret like a Martin guitar.

2. Separate the heel cap from the neck heel

3. Steam the dovetail and wrestle the neck loose from the body. In my experience, having a helper to hold on to the body while wrestling with the neck is a good idea.

As an aside, Gibson occasionally used other neck joints besides dovetail joints (60s 70s?), and perhaps some were used on mandolins called F-5s, but as far as I know, if you have a typical looking F5 you'll have a dovetail.

[musicofanatic]

The information offered above confirms much of what I suspected. Removing the 'board will reveal how I may approach the non-functioning adjustable truss rod, expose the neck joint for consideration of going further with that, and perhaps a "wedge" between neck and 'board will be all the further I will go. So appreciative for the responses received!

[pops1]

I have had to remove the fingerboard, take out the truss rod and deepen the slot in a Gibson mandolin to make the truss rod work. If you do this you may be able to forgo removing the neck. Hopefully.

[musicofanatic]

I have had to remove the fingerboard, take out the truss rod and deepen the slot in a Gibson mandolin to make the truss rod work. If you do this you may be able to forgo removing the neck. Hopefully.

Thanks, hoping so, too. My experience is that an adjustable rod has most effect on the first 5 frets. There is an even radius of deflection between nut and body join. But, yes...off with the fretboard!

[sunburst]

It also occurred to me that Flatiron used bolts for mandolin neck joints, so right after Gibson bought Flatiron and thus Faltiron started making mandolins labeled "Gibson", there may be "Gibson" mandolins with bolt-on necks. A quick look through the end pin hole will confirm.

[rcc56]

Sometimes we forget things.

Before you start pulling it apart for an inoperative truss rod and anything else that might be wrong with it, did you try installing a washer or two under the truss rod adjusting nut plus a drop of machine oil to see if you can get the rod to operate?

I have also had some luck by jigging a bowed neck into a slight back-bow, and then adjusting the t-rod nut [with or without washers]. Often, it will be sufficient to take the bow out and hold without pulling the board.

Warning to hobbyists: Don't try this at home, boys and girls.

[amowry]

Right, there are a lot of neck fixes that can be done without resetting the neck, and fixing/replacing the trussrod, adding some carbon fiber, etc. are much easier to do. I make my fretboards a little thicker than the Gibson standard so there's some room to thin either end if it should ever become necessary to adjust the angle a little.

[sunburst]

Another method of neck removal that seems to work for people from time to time:
Leave the mandolin in a hot car in the summertime with strings up to full tension!

[MikeEdgerton]

Another method of neck removal that seems to work for people from time to time:
Leave the mandolin in a hot car in the summertime with strings up to full tension!

And you might get lucky and have the back pop off too! It's a win/win!

[musicofanatic]

Sometimes we forget things.

Before you start pulling it apart for an inoperative truss rod and anything else that might be wrong with it, did you try installing a washer or two under the truss rod adjusting nut plus a drop of machine oil to see if you can get the rod to operate?

I have also had some luck by jigging a bowed neck into a slight back-bow, and then adjusting the t-rod nut [with or without washers]. Often, it will be sufficient to take the bow out and hold without pulling the board.

Warning to hobbyists: Don't try this at home, boys and girls.

Fortunately I experienced no such memory lapse...Having more than a passing familiarity with adjustable truss rods and their dysfunction, adding a coupla washers and lube was my first approach, in addition to clamping a reverse bow. Good advice to any hobbyists that may be considering such moves...

[musicofanatic]

And you might get lucky and have the back pop off too! It's a win/win!

Plenty of yuks here...

[rcc56]

If you do end up pulling the neck and it is a pre-1930 mandolin, be aware that the mortise runs all the way through the neck block, rather than bottoming out like in a Martin guitar.

I don't know how they cut their mortise in the 30's. At least some of the 40's guitars had a plug in the bottom of the mortise.

See the pictures in this thread: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/th...ld-neck-joints

The more that I think about it, I wouldn't want to pull a neck on an early Gibson unless it was already loose, and their neck joints from that period seem to be especially tight.

I suggest you look for another solution.

[musicofanatic]

It is a contemporary-built instrument, constructed in the style of a 1920s F5. I initiated this thread inquiring if any had done it and in hopes of discovering am methodology. I have not threatened that I will remove the neck. I do not yet know if this is what I will have to do to correct the problem. \So far I have learned that a spell in a hot trunk might do the job and that hobbyists should not try this at home. I think it's time to close this thread. Thanks to all who tried to be helpful

[MikeEdgerton]

Looking at this from a historical message perspective the answers haven't been too much different over the years. It's not a question that has been asked a whole lot either.

https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...emoval-Fixture

[Dale Ludewig]

I don't know what the neck joint on that mandolin is, but I have used the Siminoff joint for virtually all my builds. The whole neck is set into the head block like a big tapered tenon. And then it is dowelled in from the back side, trimmed flush, and then the back is glued on. I don't think it's possible to remove the neck in this situation and it be left in a condition where it would be useable.