bluegrass listening to understand and learn the mandolin

[DavidKOS]

DavidKOS, actually I know very few mandolin music, and heard it only in some recordings as a colouring instrument (for example, the Lucio Dalla's "Piazza Grande", which has some nice mandolin phrases, or Antonello Venditti's "A Cristo", but they both are italian songwriters from the 70's and today, and often use the mandolin to recreate a folk/traditional sound in some songs), but I'll go deep in that world as soon as possible, in particular the way it was used in Napoli, where is one of the icons.

!

I'm happy you are enjoying the mandolin, and thanks for the response to my question.

[jaycat]

The Dillards - . . .
These guys were never forgiven for selling out to the Andy Griffith Show and having a hack double bass player . . .

I've never heard either of those opinions expressed. Is that the general consensus?

If I were to be unforgiving of anything, it would be the fuzz-tone banjo they employed in later years.

[grassrootphilosopher]

All the above mentioned recordings are great.

BUT:

Since you are a "blank paper" I would try to consider something more "simple", something that you can follow easier, something you can learn from easier. Try listening to "Not for Kids Only" by David Grisman and Jerry Garcia (https://acousticdisc.com/product/jer...only-download/)



While listening to all examples of music previously mentioned, try to keep it simple, when you want to learn from recordings.

"Doc & Dawg" is great too (https://acousticdisc.com/product/doc...an-in-concert/, this is the/a video but there is a CD also).

There is the two video package "The Mandolin of Bill Monroe" (https://www.homespun.com/shop/produc...e-two-dvd-set/). In order to play bluegrass, this to me is a must have (especially the Sam Bush analysis of Bill Monroe's playing).

Don´t forget the wide variety of possible other styles (Carlo Aonzo on "Traversata", Dave Appolon on Acoustic Disc etc., Chris Thile playing Bach).

[Pier_]

While listening to all examples of music previously mentioned, try to keep it simple, when you want to learn from recordings.

thankyou! I'll listen to everything.

for now the main thing for me is playing rhythm with chords, leaving the melodic parts for later.

ah, I must ask: are there some interesting books to exercise with scales and arpeggios better? I bought a couple of Mel Bay's books: "Fun with the mandolin" and "Complete Mandolin Chords", and I found the first one very useful because it shows gradually some open chords in first position, and at the end shows the various voicings for major, minor and dominant seventh, and from there I already started moving around a bit.

I'd like to find some good exercises, but youtube is so full of videos that is somewhat confusing. I'm trying to do the "Sierra Hull's arpeggio exercise" in three octaves, with related scale and harmonized scales, and it's really useful, but maybe a good book to be followed could be a better option.

my eyes caught a couple:

1) The Mandolin Picker's Guide to Bluegrass Improvisation by Jesper Rubner-Petersen, which looks like a good way to move the fingers gradually.

2) Complete Mandolinist: A Comprehensive Method by Marilynn Mair, more "classical oriented"

are these good books to start practicing?

[grassrootphilosopher]

So there is a plethora of instruction material out there.

Oldtimers (of a certain age group) probably all started with Jack Tottle´s "Bluegrass Mandolin: https://www.amazon.de/Bluegrass-Mand.../dp/0825601541

As it has its benefits I would probably not consider it the best book. But it definitely is complementary.

What I deem an incredible source, probably THE book to learn mandolin with and which goes way beyond learning mandolin is "The Pentatonic Mandolin" by Niles Hokkanen (https://www.elderly.com/products/the...tonic-mandolin). Niles is Mandocrucian here on mandolincafe. His posts carry weight (as do those by Don Stiernberg f.ex.). The Elderly description says that it's scale theory for the advanced player. I can tell you that this was how I learned mandolin. I played guitar before. But the book and cassette was an eye opener (and still is).

What you have to keep in mind: It's all about the melody. This is being stressed in almost every instruction book. But it cannot be overemphasized. Be able to play the melody.

Concerning rhythm. This is difficult. If you play (learn) alone, there's not much room for to play any kind of rhythm. What I would advocate is to watch every youtube video that you can find that has Mike Compton in it. He is a master rhythm player. Try to listen closely to what he does and try to mimic that. If you do, you'll hit the road running.

Good luck and have fun.

[grassrootphilosopher]

The books you mentioned are probably no good beginner books.

[Denny Gies]

I agree with Tom Hart. The Scaggs and Rice album is essential. You will, I repeat will, enjoy it and after you learn the major chord positions on the mandolin you will be able to figure out how to follow the songs with rhythm chops and eventually pick out the melodies. I learns a lot by listening to this album. Best of luck and welcome to our wild, wacky world.

[JeffD]

I love this. Years ago I busked my way through Scotland and Ireland and I remember someone asking me to play some Jimmy Rogers tunes. "Certainly you didn't come all the way over here to play our music?"

In the larger context, this whole thread is really really cool.

[Charlie Bernstein]

All good suggestions above! There are also a couple of highly influential albums that introduced bluegrass sounds to a wider audience in the 1960s and 1970s:

Old and In the Way

Will the Circle Be Unbroken

[Pier_]

Thanks guys! there are lots of bands and names :D I'll have to listen for years to come.

talking about playing, I'm trying to work on melodies, as grassrootsphilosopher said, and I'm coming up with some decent hand movement :D

could you give some advice? here's a video I did today: https://www.facebook.com/515641017/v...5730082789423/

it's an italian song from the 60's, bu Edoardo Vianello. I took the melody line (in the key of G) and I'm trying to getting used to the "shape" of the scales on the neck, sticking (for now) to a fixed fingering/position.

it's so interesting that, with the strings tuned by fifths, you have four notes of the scale on the same string. I'm used to the guitar/bass tuning, where you move after three notes, usually, but having the fifth on the same fret as the first is so interesting and in some way gives you more freedom and diminishes the need to shift position.

now I'm starting to understand my violinist (she's not a "fiddler" :D she only plays classical music) that thinks in terms of hand positions.

[grassrootphilosopher]

It looks like you are allready well on your way.

Many "things" have to do with mandolin styles. Bluegrass, classical mandolin, jazz, irish etc. differ in so many ways while retaining comon elements. These "refinements" actually make or break a good mandolin player.

Listening, analyzing and trying to play what you listen to will very quickly better your playing considerably.

Posts by Pete Martin, Don Stiernberg, Niles Hokkanen (mandocrucian) and a number of others here are also weighty.

[Pier_]

It looks like you are allready well on your way.

Many "things" have to do with mandolin styles. Bluegrass, classical mandolin, jazz, irish etc. differ in so many ways while retaining comon elements. These "refinements" actually make or break a good mandolin player.

Listening, analyzing and trying to play what you listen to will very quickly better your playing considerably.

Posts by Pete Martin, Don Stiernberg, Niles Hokkanen (mandocrucian) and a number of others here are also weighty.

thankyou! I'm trying to study everyday something, and listening to many things. right now I'm using it to copy some violin and guitar melodic parts in some italian music :D I've also tried it live last tuesday!
just a song, in which I played the trumpet riff and other small instrumentals of "La ballata dell'amore cieco" by Fabrizio De Andrè.

it's such a beautiful instrument...

[Mandoplumb]

The Stanley Brothers recordings are a great place to start, I think better than most Bill Monroe recordings. Then Flatt and Scruggs.

Stuff past 1970 doesn't typically have the old time feel for me, but nevertheless there are many great recordings, Bluegrass Album Band and Nashville Bluegrass Band come to mind.

Red Wine, from Italy, is really good. redwinemusic.net

The man is wanting to learn mandolin. The early bands you mentioned did not feature mandolin, in fact with F&S you would be hard pressed to hear a mandolin even when Curly was holding one

[grassrootphilosopher]

The man is wanting to learn mandolin. The early bands you mentioned did not feature mandolin, in fact with F&S you would be hard pressed to hear a mandolin even when Curly was holding one

I have to disgress. The Stanley Brothers had the wonderful Pee Wee Lambert who was recorded on the Columbia sides:



This goes to show that you can even attach a strap to the headstock of an F-5 mandolin, and a Lloyd Loar for that matter.
The Lloyd Loar by the way was once owned by Harry West and is now in the hands of Ricky Skaggs. It is supposed to be one of the best Lloyd Loar F-5s out there.

Here's Pee Wee Lambert with the late John Hickman:



And if you are interested in "raw" bluegrass you may also listen to Red Cravens and the Bray Brothers. All that has great mandolin playing in an interesting albeit not overly refined style.

[tiltman]

To me, the king of "raw" bluegrass would have to be Frank Wakefield...

OP should add him to the list as well.

Kirk

[rumpystumpy]

England here. When I started I was looking for bluegrass as a good way to learn mando. As I began to explore American Stuff I soon learned that Old Time what what I was really looking for. Very good for satisfying rhythm, chords and melody.
Angeline the baker
Shove the pigs foot
Billy in the Lowground
Good lessons on mandolessons.com

[Kevin Briggs]

Hey there!

Great thread. Here’s a playlist I put together for a friend who was interested in learning some classic bluegrass. It’s not comprehensive, but is a good start:

https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/...Ldbqe0qI5vlpRY

[Mandoplumb]

You are right the Stanleys had a couple good mandolin players , Pee Wee probably the best, but be warned it's hard to find. Speaking of his mandolin heard he was at a jam , laid it in a chair and someone sat on it breaking the neck so Pee Wee threw it away Someone ( I heard Wake Frankfield) reclaimed it and had it repaired

[j4music]

"Bluegrass Mandolin Extravaganza." Awesome double CD produced by Ronnie McCoury with Del playing rhythm. Has practically everyone on it, jamming on the classics, endless Lloyd Loar and other mando photos. Not be missed. (Tried to add a photo but no luck; just google it.)

[JeffD]

You listen to bluegrass to learn bluegrass mandolin.

You listen to other styles of mandolin playing to learn other styles of mandolin playing.