Balancing a headstock-heavy CBOM?

[Mankindolin]

Hello, CBOM-ers!

I have and love a Paul Hathway cittern. It has taken over my mandolin-family instrument playing efforts. (Sorry, neglected Eastman mandolin!) A picture for reference:



Though I do love it, I do wish it were more balanced. It is definitely headstock-heavy and if it weren't for the weight (and perhaps some pressure) of my right forearm resting on top of the onion-shaped body, the headstock would speed towards the floor like a falling elevator dial in an old cartoon. The weight imbalance is distracting and slightly uncomfortable. Otherwise I am fairly comfortable with my strap and the strap button placement.

For a remedy I can imagine a weight hanging from or applied to the tailblock strap button. Is there such a thing? How have you sensed and solved this issue (if at all)? Or do CBOM players just grin and bear the weight imbalance which is a function of lots of tuning machines atop a long neck attached to a smaller body?

I'd love to hear from you with any observations/ideas!

Thanks,
Dan

[Baron Collins-Hill]

I know the feeling! Looks like you are using a nice wide strap, but perhaps something with more grip? I use a leather strap (nothing fancy) with a slightly rough natural underside that helps keep the strap from slipping and letting the headstock drop. I'm still on the search for better cittern technique myself!

Thanks
Baron

[Mandobar]

you might try not using the strap button on the neck and tying either a shoelace (old school) looped through the strap end and wearing the strap ala "Norman Blake." I think the problem is that the body is being overpowered by the headstock mass.

[Mankindolin]

Ah, two very good suggestions! Thank you!

Both make sense and can even be combined: shift the center of gravity by 'including' the neck within the span of the strap and also to decrease the slippage of the strap against the player's body.

Will try….but will need a different and longer strap!

Best,
Dan

[William Young]

What a beautiful instrument! I use a Bill Bailey strap on my octave mandolin. Maybe one of these would help.



Here is a link to his website:
https://www.thebaileystrap.com

[Mankindolin]

22,

Thanks for the link—by the looks of it, the weave of the Bailey strap would definitely help prevent slippage!

I tried mandobar's suggestion of tying the strap to the headstock instead of the body: for me the instrument was even MORE imbalanced! I needed even more downward and inward right forearm pressure to hold it steady…the cittern body wanted to fly to the right in addition to the headstock wanting to head down towards the floor.

Potential solution: i can picture a belt around my waist which would hold a tether strap/cord attached to the end pin (?)…but now it's getting complicated

[Tobias Haupt]

I have the same problem with the eastman octave mandolin and was using a strap button drilled into the side of the neck joint. The mandolin tended to roll forward and the neck was too heavy as well. Now I also bind the big leather strap to he headstock. That helped a bit.
You play a citern with a neck probably even a bit heavier. These big tear drop instruments are often played on the lap. Have you considered using a foot rest? A guitar leg support may also help to get a more balanced feeling. There is plenty of different support gear available. Pillows or mountable (instrument)body extensions.

[foldedpath]

My Weber F-style OM is headstock-heavy, but only if I'm not holding it right.

The weight imbalance changes with every degree of angle you move the neck up from horizontal, and I'm usually at around a 45 degree neck angle when I play. That keeps the big elaborate headstock from unbalancing the instrument.

I do use a strap to help stabilize it, but it's not carrying much of the weight. Most of the weight is on my legs, with the F-style point at the treble side of the instrument helping a little against my left leg. Most of the stability is from the relatively high neck angle.

If you play seated with most of the weight on your legs, you might also want to experiment with using a small piece of rubberized cloth on your leg to prevent the OM's body from shifting. I used to do that when playing a Classical guitar that had a tendency to slide and shift around a bit when playing.

[Jim Bevan]

I never actually got around to doing this for my Sobell 10-string mandolin, but I had the idea of having an extra-long strap made, one that would go about a foot or two past the endpin button, figuring that if I sat on this extra bit it would limit the action of the downward pull on the headstock.

[Mankindolin]

The weight imbalance changes with every degree of angle you move the neck up from horizontal, and I'm usually at around a 45 degree neck angle when I play. That keeps the big elaborate headstock from unbalancing the instrument.

I arrived at this solution out of necessity, too! The higher pitched angle also helps to keep the left shoulder down and in a more neutral position.

I never actually got around to doing this for my Sobell 10-string mandolin, but I had the idea of having an extra-long strap made, one that would go about a foot or two past the endpin button, figuring that if I sat on this extra bit it would limit the action of the downward pull on the headstock.

Similar to my musings above about an extra strap on the endpin.

These big tear drop instruments are often played on the lap. Have you considered using a foot rest? A guitar leg support may also help to get a more balanced feeling. There is plenty of different support gear available. Pillows or mountable (instrument)body extensions.

For a moment I considered using some type of support contraption on this site: https://xguitars.com/collections/guitar-supports

But since I have had postural distortion and pelvic pain from sitting down (a left over from my guitar days), I've sought a more neutral, symmetrical standing position while playing. It remains the most comfortable way to play for me.

[Martin Beer]

Where is your heel strap button positioned? I feel like a button on the treble side of the heel hugs the instrument in a little closer to you. Buttons on the back of the heel tend to tip the instrument out away from you, which probably won't help.
My cittern has a long neck, but with a strap button on the treble side and a suede backed leather strap, I find it comfortable enough.

[Mankindolin]

Where is your heel strap button positioned? I feel like a button on the treble side of the heel hugs the instrument in a little closer to you. Buttons on the back of the heel tend to tip the instrument out away from you, which probably won't help.

The first step i took towards a more stable instrument was to move the strap button from the back heel to the treble side of the heel—a vast improvement for stability in the median plane. An illustration:



My chief complaint has almost entirely to do with the frontal plane and the headstock wanting to fall towards the floor. Angling the neck upwards does help. Right forearm weight helps maintain the position. However, if i were to remove my right forearm from resting on top of the body, the headstock would probably hit the floor. I originally wanted a solution which would possibly balance the instrument in a comfortable playing position without any pressure from me. (Almost as if it were on a stand)…but i'm thinking this is not possible and there is no simple solution.

Maybe i just need a better strategy coping with a lovable, versatile, yet physically unstable instrument?

[Mankindolin]

Ok, I think i've had a breakthrough!

Combining my thinking out loud in this thread with some of the feedback i've received, i've arrived at a simple solution. Found an old, well-broken-in leather strap in one of my other instrument cases. So, this has become my over-the-shoulder strap with plenty of grip against my clothing to minimize sliding. Strap number two made of nylon (which used to be number one—i.e. over my shoulder) has become a 'belt' to be worm around my waist, opened up like so:



The free end then is attached to the end pin strap button on top of the primary strap.



These two straps support the cittern perfectly in position without any assistance from my arms. (Look, ma, no hands!):




Very simple! Very comfortable. Two straps. No energy wasted by worry and the effort of trying to support the instrument=Less anxiety and more energy available for playing…

Hope this might help someone…it has sure put me at greater ease!

Happy Strapping,
Dan