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Thread: Heat gun in steel pipe?

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    Default Heat gun in steel pipe?

    Hello! If you've seen my other posts you'll know I don't have a mandolin yet but I should be buying my first one this week! Anyway;

    I've been watching a lot of Jerry Rosa's videos because I find them oddly relaxing and the idea of building and maintaining instruments has always appealed to me. He built his side bender and shares how to do so in videos giving out parts to get.

    I know a lot of you stand by the old propane torch in a pipe method for side bending, but is there any reason a heat gun wouldn't work? Grab a 16mm diameter steel tube, shove a heat gun up one end, that way you don't have to deal with flames? (This way you could bend pieces in carpeted/curtained rooms without fear of going up in a blaze)

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    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    I'm not sure how comfortable I am with a heat gun used as described. Here are components that I used to build a bender many years ago when I decided to build an acoustic guitar. I was able to find the parts locally. I included the web address for the heat element as that would probably be the hardest to find. An on off momentary foot switch might be a good thing for controlling the heat.
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    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    I used a copper pipe with a rig like that many years ago.

    I’m surprised you can still buy those heating elements, they’re pretty dangerous.
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    Quote Originally Posted by jim simpson View Post
    I'm not sure how comfortable I am with a heat gun used as described. Here are components that I used to build a bender many years ago when I decided to build an acoustic guitar. I was able to find the parts locally. I included the web address for the heat element as that would probably be the hardest to find. An on off momentary foot switch might be a good thing for controlling the heat.
    Sadly that site blocks access for me as I'm in the UK. That's partly what brought on my curiosity; since blowtorches are (while not totally unavailable) quite uncommon I wondered what a hobbyist round here might use.

    Heating elements on their own are pretty hard to come by unless I'm not looking in the right place; so I figured it would come down to buying a rig from StewMac or the like, or building some jig yourself out of random junk and whatever hot appliance you could find.

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    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McCall View Post
    I used a copper pipe with a rig like that many years ago.

    I’m surprised you can still buy those heating elements, they’re pretty dangerous.
    The heating elemente are not dangerous. It's the folks who use them in a wrong way who are dangerous.
    I made my iron 20 years ago from galvanized pipe (2"dia) with very similar element inside. Filled the whole inside with fine sand that acts as insulator and distributes heat evenly.
    Adrian

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    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    I don't know what kind of heat gun you are looking at but the one I have will scorch the paint right off a car. It is plenty hot enough to start flammables in front of it on fire. It gets very hot.

    How about a water heater heater?
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    As an aside, has anyone here tried building the RSW Side Bender? Think it'd cost about $50 max and looks like it does him well.

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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    I use a heat gun and galvanized pipe and it works well. I started using it outside and I think by now any noxious gases have been burnt off so I use it in my basement. In any case it only gets hot enough on the high setting to bead water and it is controllable and I feel fairly safe and most importantly works well. The electric box on the end keeps the heat in and I have a 1 1/2 and 2" pipe set up.Click image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    Actually make that 1" and 2" pipe. I also use an old leather belt and a very flexible ruler together as a bending strap

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    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    Quote Originally Posted by HoGo View Post
    The heating elemente are not dangerous. It's the folks who use them in a wrong way who are dangerous..........
    How helpful. The breadth of that insight is exceeded only by the depth of the Sahara ocean.
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    Quote Originally Posted by larten27 View Post
    Sadly that site blocks access for me as I'm in the UK. That's partly what brought on my curiosity; since blowtorches are (while not totally unavailable) quite uncommon I wondered what a hobbyist round here might use.

    Heating elements on their own are pretty hard to come by unless I'm not looking in the right place; so I figured it would come down to buying a rig from StewMac or the like, or building some jig yourself out of random junk and whatever hot appliance you could find.
    Hard to believe disposable cylinder household propane torches are rare, but I’ll take your word. But you definitely are not looking in the right places for electrical heating elements. Wouldn’t mention these (again, and again) but it appears that things electrical are not as much universal knowledge as one might expect, plus my intimate acquaintance with Brit technology in the form of Lucas.
    To wit: the pictured cylindrical coil heater, long ago common in dish shaped portable heaters, is very much unsafe if improperly used where there is any chance of touching a housing, either directly or through a poor insulator, since the coil is at voltage at all points. So putting one in a pipe where it might touch is wrong. Enclosed tubular heaters, as in ovens, with the shell or tube grounded, (earthed for you folks) are ok for this application. HoGo’s sand-filled design is better for uniformity, and economy as well. Prior threads here also mention heat control and measurement techniques, simple and inexpensive.




    C

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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    Hard to believe disposable cylinder household propane torches are rare, but I’ll take your word. But you definitely are not looking in the right places for electrical heating elements. Wouldn’t mention these (again, and again) but it appears that things electrical are not as much universal knowledge as one might expect, plus my intimate acquaintance with Brit technology in the form of Lucas.
    To wit: the pictured cylindrical coil heater, long ago common in dish shaped portable heaters, is very much unsafe if improperly used where there is any chance of touching a housing, either directly or through a poor insulator, since the coil is at voltage at all points. So putting one in a pipe where it might touch is wrong. Enclosed tubular heaters, as in ovens, with the shell or tube grounded, (earthed for you folks) are ok for this application. HoGo’s sand-filled design is better for uniformity, and economy as well. Prior threads here also mention heat control and measurement techniques, simple and inexpensive.
    C
    Aye I would never stick a live heating element in a metal container without another electrically insulating medium to fill the space, more power to the people who did that but I've been shocked too many times (read: ONCE) to take that risk. Cartridge heaters would be your safer bet, much easier to get a hold of than heating coils short of tearing your kettle apart and nicely contained. I also see people talk about the silicon mats but I have no idea how you'd use them for bending so I didn't bother asking.

    And it's not so much that propane torches are rare, you can buy them online or at hardware stores for like 20 quid, but ask most regular people here and they'd struggle to think of a use common enough to warrant owning one. Hobbyist chefs, home mechanics/DIYers, it's not a long list.

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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    For $11 you can get an electric charcoal / BBQ starting element from Home Depot or any similar store. Stuff that inside your bending pipe; they are reasonably malleable, so you can drop it in a vise and modify the shape. 'Works great, easy on the wallet. While you eliminate the open flame and exploding canister, they still generate a tremendous amount of heat.

    I have about 20+ different silicon heat blankets, 3 copper pipes, multiple heating elements like above, several propane torches, & multiple vacuum systems for laminating complex rib garlands and beyond. I use every one of them, it just depends upon the day and the instrument needs.....
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    Quote Originally Posted by j. condino View Post
    For $11 you can get an electric charcoal / BBQ starting element from Home Depot or any similar store. Stuff that inside your bending pipe; they are reasonably malleable, so you can drop it in a vise and modify the shape. 'Works great, easy on the wallet. While you eliminate the open flame and exploding canister, they still generate a tremendous amount of heat.

    I have about 20+ different silicon heat blankets, 3 copper pipes, multiple heating elements like above, several propane torches, & multiple vacuum systems for laminating complex rib garlands and beyond. I use every one of them, it just depends upon the day and the instrument needs.....
    Yeah, no such product exists here in the UK. You can buy big 6 fold heating elements that will live underneath the coals but nothing so small or handheld. You can find some on ebay but they quickly enter the £20-30 range.

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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    Watlow heaters UK. I bought most of our cartridge heaters from this company. Generally pretty inexpensive. These come any length, diameter, shell.Most are sold as components, so you have to add a line cord, but you want to do it nicely, so direct wire into a PID temperature controller with a thermocouple. 500W should be enough.
    Never bent wood, except in a microwave oven, but if I needed to, I’d probably want it reproduceable.
    There’s no reason to avoid industrial products fearing that they’re hard to source or expensive. Once in a while make-do isn’t that gratifying, keep telling myself, anyway.

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    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    The Watlow catalog has thousands of different heat sources. I've been buying flexible silicon heat blankets and cartridges from them for 25 years.
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    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    When I made my iron years ago I also only looked around common HW stores or spare part stores for electric devices to find parts. All I got was live heating element (spare part for air heaters) and BIG rheostat (spare part from old soviet radio locator - my father was a soldier). I'm handy at electrics so I wired the thing with safety in mind (every part grounded and insulated etc.)
    Back then (before internet shopping) thermostats were not easily accessible and digital were extremely rare to see even on professional appliances (I could probably rip apart old clothes iron or oven and try to reuse that).
    Now I know a local company that makes heating cartriges to custom orders in any shape wattage you want for very reasonable prices and you can order digital thermostat for peanuts so that would be the way to go. I would probably have the working part cast from aluminum or machined from a large chunk which is not as expensive these days as it used to be. You can stack 3-4 layers of 1" thick aluminum to make the iron, it can be cut on bandsaw and bolted (or welded) together. Then shape it on beltsander or with large files.
    Adrian

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    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    You can get 25’ of ni chrome wire on Amazon for 7$ so there certainly are a lot of possibilities. I happens to be looking off some to make a hot wire foam cutter.
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    Not here to comment on heating elements, but rather the use of galvanized pipe. My understanding (from working in industrial sales and calling on welding and fabrication shops) is that heating galvanized pipe can release zinc oxide fumes that can result in galvanize poisoning (fume fever). Similarly the galvanizing process ( essentially dipping the pipe, tube, sheet etc into molten zinc) typically requires proper ventilation and breathing protection (A cartridge type mask if I recall - it's been a awhile since I retired). Galvanizing plants can be environmentally challenging to say the least.
    Not sure I'd want any zinc fumes, no matter how minimal, floating around my workshop.
    Perhaps someone with a more complete knowledge of this could chime in.

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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gnann View Post
    Not here to comment on heating elements, but rather the use of galvanized pipe. My understanding (from working in industrial sales and calling on welding and fabrication shops) is that heating galvanized pipe can release zinc oxide fumes that can result in galvanize poisoning (fume fever). Similarly the galvanizing process ( essentially dipping the pipe, tube, sheet etc into molten zinc) typically requires proper ventilation and breathing protection (A cartridge type mask if I recall - it's been a awhile since I retired). Galvanizing plants can be environmentally challenging to say the least.
    Not sure I'd want any zinc fumes, no matter how minimal, floating around my workshop.
    Perhaps someone with a more complete knowledge of this could chime in.
    Bob is correct on this. You will need to burn the galvanizing off before using the pipe, preferably outside.
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    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    Regarding the galvanized pipe, copper is a better choice. In the U.S. it is readily available at big box lumber stores or plumbing suppliers in a lot of sizes and relatively inexpensive. It transfers heat better than any metal other than silver or gold and does not produce fumes.

    I have used a cheap Wal Mart special hot plate to heat the pipe and it works. A heating element would probably be a neater installation.

  29. #22

    Default Re: Heat gun in steel pipe?

    Not dispensing medical advice, but the operating temperature of a bender is much too low, red heat or above gives significant vapor of Zn, ZnO from galvanize or brass. Welders working galvanized steel are far above this. Plus, “fume fever” unless huge dosage, is temporary, not like lead, cadmium etc, which we encounter soldering, casting, brazing. These are toxic, cumulative, and carcinogenic in tiny amounts. And, like asbestos, ZnO is everywhere.
    If anyone is concerned with heating, touching, breathing, ingesting things, MSDS sheets and Wikipedia are good resources.
    I imagine that, other than paints, glues and solvent inhalation and skin exposure, and maybe nickel allergy, there’s not great hazard in lutherie.

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