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Thread: Pick Hold Issues

  1. #1

    Default Pick Hold Issues

    I am a new player and am really struggling with the correct/comfortable pick hold. I've tried a relaxed grip like so many recommend, but the feel is just not right. It either feels too loose as if it will drop out of my hand, or if I try and tighten, it feels too rigid. Either way, I can't but help to try and adjust the pick between my index finger and thumb while picking, and it all feels uncomfortable. Looking for any tips on getting past this.
    REW

  2. #2
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    If at all possible, find a good teacher, either local to you or via remote who can watch what you do and how you can improve it. It is very hard for us to recommend other what works for us and it sounds like you already got recommendations to relax. I assume you never played guitar or other picked instruments?
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    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    I wooodshedded tremolo with a variety of picks until I got better at luck holding and manipulation. Now I use Bluechip because they stay in place better for me. But any pick can work well. I’m no teacher and no pro just letting you know what worked for me. Tremolo everyday until I got the hang of it. Good Luck.
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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    You eventually get the hang of it but in the meantime try some Gorilla Snot (yes, that's a real name). It's made to assist with holding picks and drumsticks. I keep some in my case for the days that my fingers are really dry. The pick won't slip and keep it off the strings.

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  8. #5
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    You eventually get the hang of it but in the meantime try some Gorilla Snot (yes, that's a real name). It's made to assist with holding picks and drumsticks. I keep some in my case for the days that my fingers are really dry. The pick won't slip and keep it off the strings.
    You can save a lot on money if you go to the local zoo and get it directly from the source.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Jim

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  10. #6
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    You can save a lot on money if you go to the local zoo and get it directly from the source.
    As long as you don't mind losing your face, yes. By the way, no Gorilla's were harmed when harvesting this product.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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  11. #7
    Kelley Mandolins Skip Kelley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    You can save a lot on money if you go to the local zoo and get it directly from the source.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #8
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    These things get easier. Just keep practicing

    In the mean time, some sticky stuff (like the Gorilla snot, or even just licking your fingers a bit), or a pick with some holes in it (Wegan tf) will assist you.
    Worlds okay-ist mandolin player

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  13. #9
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Holes never worked for me but it does work for some, trying pick is easy and inexpensive until you get sucked into the more expensive stuff.
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

    Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.

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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by rew View Post
    I am a new player and am really struggling with the correct/comfortable pick hold. I've tried a relaxed grip like so many recommend, but the feel is just not right. It either feels too loose as if it will drop out of my hand, or if I try and tighten, it feels too rigid. Either way, I can't but help to try and adjust the pick between my index finger and thumb while picking, and it all feels uncomfortable. Looking for any tips on getting past this.
    What pick are you using?

  15. #11
    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    I remember when I was learning, I’d over grip when nervous at gigs, and would get wicked hand cramps…
    Leaning the correct grip is somewhat counterintuitive, good luck
    I use the closed fist, no pinky plant, large triangle pick grip. it felt so wrong until I developed the muscle memory. Now I play for hours and the pick doesn’t twist or slip.
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  16. #12

    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues



    Maybe you can get it from this guy.

  17. #13
    Registered User Rick Jones's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by rew View Post
    I am a new player and am really struggling with the correct/comfortable pick hold. I've tried a relaxed grip like so many recommend, but the feel is just not right. It either feels too loose as if it will drop out of my hand, or if I try and tighten, it feels too rigid. Either way, I can't but help to try and adjust the pick between my index finger and thumb while picking, and it all feels uncomfortable. Looking for any tips on getting past this.
    A lot of this will come with practice (and patience). Your grip will vary a little all the time, depending upon what you're playing at a give moment in time - sometimes a little tighter, sometimes a little looser. My grip is a tighter playing single notes and chords, a little looser playing tremolo. I don't consciously think about this, it all becomes automatic. It's all feel, and it comes with time. I am personally in the camp that doesn't plant any fingers on the finger rest, and don't rest my wrist on the bridge. In my case, I try to keep my wrist loose; the backs of my curled fingers brush gently against the finger rest. There are a lot of conflicting opinions on this, for sure, and there is no "right". Go to YouTube, search on Don Julin - and in any one of his videos, you'll see what I personally think is the perfect pick hold and right hand position. My opinion, your mileage may vary.
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  18. #14
    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    If you are new to holding a pick, don't feel discouraged. It took me what felt like ages that I finally had a hold on the pick that didn't result in the pick winding up inside the body of my guitar. It's all about the balance between relaxed and just enough strength so that the pick doesn't slip out of your fingers. The same applies to the pressure on the strings (with the left hand, presuming that you are right handed and hold the pick with the right hand).

    Do avoid the "pencil grip" by all means (players like Jimmy Geaudreau use it though). To my mind you'll not get a comfortable pick hold. Have your hand relax. That way, your hand has a half curled in position. Lay the pick on your index finger with the point aligning with the direction of your index finger. Have the point of the pick extend over the end of your index finger at about 1/5 of the pick. Fixate the pick with your thumb. This ought to give you a start on a good pick hold.
    Olaf

  19. #15
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by grassrootphilosopher View Post
    Do avoid the "pencil grip" by all means (players like Jimmy Geaudreau use it though).


    I'm not sure I agree...he plays well with that non-fist grip on the pick.

  20. #16

    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Casein picks have the nice property that they get a little more grippy if they’re wet. It’s one of the reasons I like those - they’re expensive but they sound nice and are a bit easier to hold onto.

  21. #17
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Schillace View Post
    Casein picks have the nice property that they get a little more grippy if they’re wet. It’s one of the reasons I like those - they’re expensive but they sound nice and are a bit easier to hold onto.
    I agree and also have to disagree with this.

    Both my Red Bear and my Hawk Pick are grippy-ish. However my D'Addario Chris Thile Signature pick slips and spins in my fingers when chopping chords hard/loud. Might have to do with the varying bevels.

  22. #18
    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post

    I'm not sure I agree...he plays well with that non-fist grip on the pick.
    Well, you are absolutely right, that Jimmy Geaudreau pulls a great tone with his pencil grip. A high point for me was a "mando class" after a concert in Swizerland that I attended. He turned me "back" from the round side of a pick (like a Dawg Pick/Golden Gate mando pick) to a straight teardrop kind of pick (which is what I use on a guitar anyhow). His pencil grip though... I´d advise to avoid it.

    My reason: Gripping the pick with the flesh of your fingers (thumb, index) causes the loss of control. You´ll have to grip harder and your hand position is awkward. Check out Paul van Vloodrop. He´s a pencil gripper with a great tone (he´s on Mandolin Mondays). But you´re better off different.

    If you´re playing classical music, you´re opening another entirely different can of worms:



    Check out how this dude holds his classical picks (pencil grip) and his "straight picks" ("bluegrass grip" somewhat like I would advise) It is interesting.
    Olaf

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  24. #19
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by grassrootphilosopher View Post
    Well, you are absolutely right, that Jimmy Geaudreau pulls a great tone with his pencil grip. A high point for me was a "mando class" after a concert in Swizerland that I attended. He turned me "back" from the round side of a pick (like a Dawg Pick/Golden Gate mando pick) to a straight teardrop kind of pick (which is what I use on a guitar anyhow). His pencil grip though... I´d advise to avoid it.

    My reason: Gripping the pick with the flesh of your fingers (thumb, index) causes the loss of control. You´ll have to grip harder and your hand position is awkward. Check out Paul van Vloodrop. He´s a pencil gripper with a great tone (he´s on Mandolin Mondays). But you´re better off different.
    .....
    Check out how this dude holds his classical picks (pencil grip) and his "straight picks" ("bluegrass grip" somewhat like I would advise) It is interesting.
    Well I certainly am coming from the more classical side of mandolin technique; as in using "straight teardrop kind of pick (which is what I use on a guitar anyhow)"
    I cannot play well with a "Dawg" type pick.

  25. #20
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    I've drilled holes in a few picks, notably Wegen's and a lot of the Dunlop's I used to use. Most of the picks I've used don't need anything extra.

    Just last week I bought one of those newer Martin Luxe PEEK picks. They're only available in 1.0 mm which I've found is too thin for me. But they come with a round sticky-backed patch of very fine emery paper which I thought was a great idea.

    I cut a few rounds of very fine sandpaper and glued them on each side of a Wegen M200 to try out. Works better than drilling holes for a good grip. And it won't wipe off or dry out.

  26. #21
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by rew View Post
    I am a new player and am really struggling with the correct/comfortable pick hold. I've tried a relaxed grip like so many recommend, but the feel is just not right. It either feels too loose as if it will drop out of my hand, or if I try and tighten, it feels too rigid. Either way, I can't but help to try and adjust the pick between my index finger and thumb while picking, and it all feels uncomfortable. Looking for any tips on getting past this.
    The type of pick you're using makes a difference. Lots to choose from.

    I use a smooth, sort of glossy traditional guitar pick shape, the old standby Fender Heavy. Shape isn't that important in this situation, but the finish is. Holding the pick between my relaxed right thumb and index finger, if I lick the pick holding surfaces of those fingers, the pick won't slip out. The smooth glossy finish of the pick, and licking the surface of the fingers, is what holds it in.

    FWIW, licking also works with smooth metal surfaces that slip away from the fingers, for example fingernail clippers, and banjo fingerpicks.

    Sort of the opposite theory is involved with a speed neck, where you have a dry, non-glossy, seemingly porous surface.
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  27. #22
    Lurkist dhergert's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Worth mentioning, everybody's hands are different -- but it's also very possible to develop a way to hold the pick really wrong, and to do so for a long time...

    Over time I had developed a hand, right thumb and index finger posture that, when playing at speed, allowed me to catch my index fingernail under the strings which really hurt and eventually bloodied that finger... And that experience inspired me to re-learn how to hold the pick.

    The good side of this is that re-learning how to hold the pick allowed me to also re-learn how to better angle the pick for volume and tone, and how to better angle the pick for string reach in tremolo and double stops. It has made a huge and positive difference in my playing.

    So, learning by seeing or reading about other people and their methods is good... But develop for yourself a comfortable -- and safe -- right hand and finger posture, and of course do the same for your left hand posture. But also, be willing to re-learn if you come to recognize something isn't working the way you want it to. Re-learning is not as bad as people make it sound; it can also help you become flexible enough to learn other good things on the way.
    -- Don

    "Music: A minor auditory irritation occasionally characterized as pleasant."
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  28. #23
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    I think one of the biggest things I did like I mentioned above was tremolo. But I played with doing it slowly and trying to manipulate the pick while playing without stopping. I learned more from doing that than anything else. Manipulate the thumb or index finger a bit to get the puck to rotate tip towards the bridge or verticals or back it sounds odd but takes very little movement to make a big difference in feel and attack.
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  30. #24
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    Anyone mentioned Monster Grips yet? www.monstergrips.com They're soft round plasticy grips that self adhere (no glue) to plecra, and I find enable a looser hold. Maybe not game changing for me, but certainly helpful. Then I changed to Dunlop Acrylic 1.5 roundish triangle picks (the clear red ones) - I like the sound, but they're rotating again - hmm.

  31. #25
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pick Hold Issues

    I’ve had that pick grip issue for a while. I’ve just started using D’Addario light violin rosin on my thumb, works great, no drift. Cheap too.
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