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Thread: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

  1. #26
    Registered User darylcrisp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Clement Barrera-Ng View Post
    Congrats Daryl. I was about to ask if you ended up pulling the trigger on one. I've been watching those Duff on Carter's website myself and would love to hear your thoughts.
    hopefully by the weekend i'll have some first hand discussion for you. ironically, i had been looking at a really nice satin finish Pava that Sylvan has(they just got in 4 i think-one high flame blonde sold in a day-all A style). that Pava is a looker and i spoke with one of the staff and they said they were all very close in tone, played 3 of them over the phone and the one i picked out tone wise was the satin-ever so slightly more woody sound. but i knew i would reshape the neck if i did get one(do you still have the brown satin-wish i had kept that one all these years-lol). so i thought a lot about things, pretty much set on this will be my last mando purchase-no joke-no fingers crossed. i'm fine with what i have, that prototype oval hole is amazing, the two Webers fit me great and sound beautiful. what i thought would be a welcome addition would be something with a rich old flavor and a flat board. the webers have all the "modern" aspects and what i consider a more modern tone, lots of sustain and fit in very well with what i enjoy playing. but i've always, ever since i heard the first one, been drawn towards a Duff and Heiden. I had around $5300 and could have went upwards to $7000 but did not want to go past the low range. i have some other things i want to get involved in(long bow archery, wood carving and shell inlay) and need the other $ for those. i also have one of these on order with Beard and its about 6 months out(i've got into dobro and lap steel a lot the past 2 years). this is my last music instrument i'll be buying:



    i recently retired, on the fixed income ride these days, so i'm watching what i spend and how. this past year has been a whirlwind due to the pandemic and i've picked up a lot of instruments i've wanted for some time, very lucky in getting some really good deals on used ones that are golden. i do need to let loose of some banjos(acquired 11...maybe 12, but i'm looking around and seeing 14 cases and for the life of me cannot remember what banjo is in two of them-thats really bad). sorry for the long story, its stress relief for me. so i didn't pursue the Pava, but my goodness the thing is a beauty and only $2900-somebody jump on it, its a good one, satin burst with brilliant flame woods. ah, here it is in the classifieds:
    https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/181418#181418
    and this natural with birdseye had my eye also: https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/181415#181415

    but, i kinda sorta have these types of mandolin already in the webers(fern F, and natural 2 prong). no matter how much my eyes wanted me to get either of those, i knew my search was towards the "old school" tone with short decay, rich fundamental notes, flat board, etc i'm hoping to start some lesson plans towards Monroe style with either Compton at Peghead or Murphy. figured this would be the bomb for such an adventure. i went straight to CV website and saw the used 2020 for $5250 and the new one for $6050-has a pickup which i don't need or want, evo frets-which are fine but that doesn't imprint on me as i can do any fretwork i need on anything i have. i don't have a heavy fretting hand so standard frets last me forever it seems.

    called and spoke with a brilliant young lady by the name of Mikayla(spelling?). i will say it has been a pleasure to do business with Carter Vintage-irregardless if the Duff works out for me or not. i had questons on the specs/fret size differences and metallurgy, tone, feel in the hand, and if the consigned owner would accept my offer i made. she gave me answers quickly and exact. first thing she said, "hold on and let me get both mandolins in hand so i can tell you about them and play them for you. that was excellent!
    her diagnosis, both felt the same, both sounded for the most part identical, both played with an easy touch and gave prominent tone. played over the phone, i couldn't tell the difference. she then got another staff member who plays mandolin better(she was a fiddler and guitar player), had him play and again, no difference and both had fine tone. he also agreed both had very easy action and were well set up. he also mentioned the neck felt extremely easy to play with both, and you didn't have to pick hard to get max tone.

    the owner accepted my offer, and as i finished out the sale today, Mikayla mentioned, "oh yea, this used one has a brand new calton case with strap." and although i don't need a calton, i've never owned one so it will be interesting to see and have one around. if i don't want it i can always sell it at a decent price and regain a little of my purchase cost. if its one of the splatter colors..........i might have to keep that. especially if its white or black with all those colors splashed all over, i think those look cool.

    when i jumped on the CV website today to save the pictures i posted of it, i saw they just posted another Duff A, 2021. nice flame wood, gold hardware, looks kinda higher grade appointments, i think it was $5450.
    https://cartervintage.com/collection...s/duff-a5-2021

    i get the feeling its going to fit me well and work out fine. if its something like the neck needs a little change i will reshape that. i'm excited to finally get my hands on one of these. i will probably remove the pickguard rather quickly if its kept, i've never needed those and usually don't care for the extra stuff attached. i'll let you know what i think in a few days.

    hope all is well with you and the family
    d
    Last edited by darylcrisp; Jan-19-2022 at 12:00am.

  2. #27
    Registered User mingusb1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    I think you're going to like it Daryl!

    Cheers,
    Zack
    Member since 2003!

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  4. #28

    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Wow, that didn't take long. I called about the 2021 with Waverly's and it's already sold.

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  6. #29
    Registered User Glassweb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    I believe Carter's just received a Duff 2-point mandolin... hasn't been listed yet so it might still be up for grabs...

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  8. #30
    Registered User darylcrisp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glassweb View Post
    I believe Carter's just received a Duff 2-point mandolin... hasn't been listed yet so it might still be up for grabs...
    DANG!
    I LOVE 2 points. didn't think to ask if they had any other Duff's not listed. oh well, i'm sure it would have been more expensive and i do think i fell into a dandy deal but will know for sure in a few days.
    d

  9. #31

    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Max Girouard is just finishing some 2 points
    "your posts ... very VERY opinionated ...basing your opinion/recommendations ... pot calling ...kettle... black...sarcasm...comment ...unwarranted...unnecessary...."

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  11. #32
    Registered User darylcrisp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Update.
    2020 A style arrived yesterday 338pm.
    Opened around midnight after acclimation.
    Emailed CV for return an hour later. Was told it had a flat fretboard which is what I wanted, unfortunately it has a compound radius identical to Collings, which is the one radius measure that does not work with my left hand, especially fret 1 thru 5.
    Has a great tone, exactly what I was looking for. Overall condition shows use but not abuse, very well built instrument. Frets in a few areas need a light level , few high spots, neck relief is adjusted how I setup my own with very little relief-looks straight to the eye. Plays very good with very low action, will be better with fret leveling. Beautiful classic style and appointments.
    Calton case was indeed a brand new ivory color with deep red interior. Very nice case.
    Wish it had been a flat board as told, it would be at home.

    Not sure if I want to add $1000 to get the new A that is listed with flat board and pickup that I don't need.
    Inquired about the mention in the reply regarding a 2 point maybe being there. Have my sales staffer looking into that.
    Great tone, very easy playability. Would have been an hour to level/dress frets and deep clean/new strings. Lifetime instrument here.

    If you like Collings neck profile (doesn't bother me) and fretboard radius (kills my left hand), you'll be in Duff heaven with this one.

  12. #33
    Registered User darylcrisp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandobar View Post
    Max Girouard is just finishing some 2 points
    Thanks Mary.
    I might inquire with Max, his work is excellent I know. Kinda bummed on this Duff situation and I may just step back and put the $ into my bank account.
    d

  13. #34
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Daryl, it would be cheaper to have the Duff fingerboard planed flat and refretted than to spend the extra grand for the other one. Plus shipping both ways. Just a thought.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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  15. #35

    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Quote Originally Posted by darylcrisp View Post
    Thanks Mary.
    I might inquire with Max, his work is excellent I know. Kinda bummed on this Duff situation and I may just step back and put the $ into my bank account.
    d
    Contact Ian at TME. That’s where they are headed.
    "your posts ... very VERY opinionated ...basing your opinion/recommendations ... pot calling ...kettle... black...sarcasm...comment ...unwarranted...unnecessary...."

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  17. #36
    Registered User darylcrisp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    Daryl, it would be cheaper to have the Duff fingerboard planed flat and refretted than to spend the extra grand for the other one. Plus shipping both ways. Just a thought.
    Yea, I thought that. I can do all that myself actually. Was sitting looking at it at 3:38am thinking I can fix all this but my time is seriously taken up with family, I have 6 guitars from folks needing various types of work, just finished a full refret on a new Collings F for a long time friend, and with all that I have no time to play my own instruments.
    I'm tired of fixing/working on things and just want and have high desire to play for a good while. My elderly parents are a hand full and that alone takes up almost all my time. I'm working on instruments for people at 2 am when I should be sleeping.
    If I kept thus Duff it could be 2-3 months before I get to it.
    Just bummed out on the whole thing. If the staff person had given the correct info which is a very important piece of info for me, I never would have ordered this one. Huge difference between flat and compound radius for some of us. I don't want to sink more time and $ in this. I'm out shipping, it's time to step back and make use of what I have.
    Thanks for your thoughts, I just about starting pulling frets last night on it and would have planed the board before the sun came up but was tired out. Just didn't want to do it. Done with this.

    I've already decided I'm not buying the new one, just done with it. Sending this back today and it's over.
    d

  18. #37
    Registered User darylcrisp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Update on the update.
    They do have a new 2 point, just in, not put it up for sale or taken pics yet. Flat FB, larger fretwire. With new calton case I think it was $7800 or around that price, without calton I think around $6900.
    I don't want to invest that much at this time. So there is one there if anybody looking.
    The staff person that gave me the incorrect info is not the lady I have worked with(mikayla). She has been spot on with everything. I had called a day before and asked specifics with a man, not posting his name, but ask 2x to make sure on things that might be specific to you-it can happen at any shop.
    My initial post may have come across too negative so I wanted to add a few things. And in the midst of life itself, shipping back an instrument is small fry. I was grateful to have the experience to have this in hand, see a calton case, and it is very very nice. Doesn't feel as heavy as some of the older ones. Handles easy, looks svelte, beautiful shape and fits all my mandos, F or A. I would buy this case in a heartbeat, and thought I might in the return.

    Due to the cold weather(1 degree tonight) and it being shipped out Saturday with potential of sitting for 2 days, I thought I would ask to keep it and play it more and see if it will work ok until i have time to change the FB radius to a 7.25" or flat and use larger wire and if i decide return ship monday. They were fine with that. Actually said they were going to send a shipping label due to the mixup.

    So I'll check it out over the weekend further.

    d

  19. #38
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Well, if you can do the plane and re-fret yourself and the tone and the neck profile fit you, yes, go ahead and play it over the weekend and see if you like it enough to go to the trouble of getting it where you want it.

    Yeah, re-fretting it is an intrusion, but I'll bet you can scare up the 6 to 8 hours to get it done. And you can break it up: pull the frets one day, plane and prep the board on another day, then drive the frets later. It won't mind whether it takes one day or two weeks to get the job done.

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  21. #39
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    It seems to me that there should be no reason, after spending that amount of money on a new instrument, that you would have to plane the fingerboard and refret it at your cost-time to make it worthwhile. I would wait until the right one comes along.
    It is nice that the shop is sending you a shipping label, the right thing to do.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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  23. #40
    Registered User darylcrisp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    Well, if you can do the plane and re-fret yourself and the tone and the neck profile fit you, yes, go ahead and play it over the weekend and see if you like it enough to go to the trouble of getting it where you want it.

    Yeah, re-fretting it is an intrusion, but I'll bet you can scare up the 6 to 8 hours to get it done. And you can break it up: pull the frets one day, plane and prep the board on another day, then drive the frets later. It won't mind whether it takes one day or two weeks to get the job done.
    glad you chimed in. i had planned to send you a pm tonight asking a few questions.

    this Duff intonates great. i think the neck is set really good because it sets up so easy with low action/low bridge, very minimal relief, but plays strong without digging in hard. prices are going up quickly, and i consider this very good on this whole package. the tone is exactly what i want-opposite in every way to my other two-so i would have a wide range of tone. the neck profile and nut width are fine. the only issue with me, not the mandolin, is the radius gives my index finger-only on the 1st two frets-a too tight curl of the finger to fret. Collings do exactly the same thing due to the similar radius. i have planed out a MT in the past to 7.25" from 1-5 frets and it made immediate difference.

    I think last night when i opened it and discovered this rather quickly, i just shook my head and closed it up and decided to walk away. Today i also realized its more than the mandolin, i'm being pulled and stretched in every direction and have been for a year and 1 month solid-kinda worn down. But i couldn't get the sound of this mandolin out of my head today. I went into chill mode as i did my daily tasks and thinking things thru worked my way back to the one area of issue(index finger) and admitting fairness would be giving the instrument more time to see if i adjust to the difference of what i'm not used too, and or, acknowledging the small task of changing what would easily fix my personal issue. I had already worked thru all this before i talked with my sales person the second time today. Mikayla had already taken care of making sure shipping would be covered upon a return without my asking.

    years past i went thru 4 Collings, sold/traded all due to the same reason. there was a discussion here on the cafe a few years back and it may have been you or sunburst who mentioned that due to the mandolin neck being so little width wise, radius really just comes into play on the outside edges of the fretboard and most of the middle is the same until you get further up along about the 9th or 10th fret and then you can see some space in the very center, then again at the main outside edges. i went home after work that night, took off the strings at the tailpiece and pulled out radius gauges and immediately saw what you all were talking about. it may not bother most people, but there are a few of us that it does. so in reality, i'm only looking at changing the radius from around the 1st to 5th fret, then it blends into a 7.25. thats not a big deal and not a lot of change. i don't have to have this flat, just flatter in the first few fret areas.

    i haven't changed out any of this small vintage size fretwire in my span of "backyard home mechanic". every job has been the larger "standard" size a lot of brands use(collings/weber etc). i have had some "difficult" jobs rebuilding a board where a prior attempt by someone burned the fretboard getting frets out, lot of ebony chip out repair, etc. i take my time and prepare the slots carefully for clean space and right depth. glue in all frets-had been using CA but i think i'm going to go with titebond and take the time to clamp overnite.

    so with these teeny tiny frets(and there's very nice binding to consider on this job), i would think the tang is almost as large as the fret-lol, but still smaller than todays standard sizes(i have a bunch of Collings fretwire already precut and bent):
    crown width: 2 mm
    crown height: 1.10 mm
    Total height 2.60 mm
    Tang width: 0.51 mm

    i assume i would need to enlarge the fret slot if i use the wire i have. i have a few small fretboard saws that are partial blades and those would open the slots. definitely do not want to bind the neck with too large tangs and create the issues that go with that.

    what do i need to consider when changing out the tiny small fretwire and going to a more large size-is there a better choice fretwire when replacing the small OEM wire that works better than opening the fret slot, or than using say the above Collings size wire that i have?

    anything you think i need to research and be aware of let me know, thank you for your time,effort, and thoughts on all this, i'm sure you've worked a lot with the small version.

    i don't have a plan to do any of this until i've given myself enough time to adjust to the new positioning, so a couple months at least. and as you said, i have a small shop space here that is really good and i leave things in stages from week to week-sometimes longer if i'm tied up. so nothing is a rush ahead project these days.

    d

  24. #41
    Registered User darylcrisp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    It seems to me that there should be no reason, after spending that amount of money on a new instrument, that you would have to plane the fingerboard and refret it at your cost-time to make it worthwhile. I would wait until the right one comes along.
    It is nice that the shop is sending you a shipping label, the right thing to do.
    i totally get what you are saying.

    i've done a few things like this for other people and it went from trying to get along with an instrument to that instrument becoming an extension of their hand. it may sound like a big task or change, but its really not difficult to plane the board-just some time, effort to do a good job-then you have an instrument that you dream about playing on all the time.

    most important, less tension and stress in your body trying to force things to align/work.

    i really think this is one of those "right ones". in the end if its not, it will be for somebody else, but at least i think it wise i give it some time to see if we come to a mutual agreement-lol


    i have a left thumb base injury that is permanent, i try to leave that thumb out of all i can when i'm holding an instrument. unfortunately it has a mind of its own and creates a few problems for me at times, this being one of those. i've had it intrude on my playing since i started. it impedes some movements of my left hand and fingers.

    d

  25. #42
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    I would lay odds of 10 to 1 that re-fretting a Duff or nearly any other modern mandolin of quality would be a very simple and straightforward job.
    Virtually all modern fret wire is sized for slots of .020" to .022". This includes the wire made by Jescar, Dunlop, and whoever extrudes for Stew-mac.
    The only exception might be some of the bottom of the line budget instruments.

    If Mr. Duff did not cut slots that would accept your ~.020" tang wire, I would be extremely surprised.
    You will probably not have to widen your slots. If you're going to flatten your board, you may have to cut them a bit deeper.

    You should be able to use just about any modern standard wire on this instrument without having to go through major contortions. Modern era instruments are usually easy to re-fret. Old Martin guitars with tired fingerboards can be tough, and pulling frets from a 1910's Gibson mandolin can be a chore. And it is usually necessary to open the slots on the old Gibsons, but that is not difficult with the right tooling. The Duff will not have a soft old rosewood board or narrow tanged 100 year old fret wire.

    I won't go into great detail about my fretting techniques here. I do have a couple of tricks that can help to drive frets easily and seat them snugly. They are not trade secrets, just common sense. Some of them are described on Frank Ford's frets.com website.

    Anyway, you are welcome to pm me, and we can talk at length over the phone.

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  27. #43

    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Daryl, I’m with Charles on this one. It either feels like home or it doesn’t.
    "your posts ... very VERY opinionated ...basing your opinion/recommendations ... pot calling ...kettle... black...sarcasm...comment ...unwarranted...unnecessary...."

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  29. #44
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Sound is where it's at. If the sound is right for your ear, the playability is easily adjusted. I have made several instruments more comfortable for me.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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  31. #45

    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Look at it this way, if you keep it, re-plane the fretboard and refret, and then decide to sell it, your pool of buyers may or may not shrink due to the modifications.

    Unless of course the sound is to die for and you will play it forever......which is as we all know, a really long time.

    Some things we can live with, some we cannot. A recent acquisition has no fret markers, at all. Not even one side dot. I thought it was going to matter. After changing the strings on the instrument, I thought about the lack of at least side dots......and said- Who cares.

    Only you can decide this one.
    "your posts ... very VERY opinionated ...basing your opinion/recommendations ... pot calling ...kettle... black...sarcasm...comment ...unwarranted...unnecessary...."

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  33. #46

    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    As evidenced in this thread from the beginning, the current Duff builds are amazingly strong and amazingly consistent. If you don't want to bother with or risk hot rodding a new instrument just shoot an email to Paul and ask if he has any coming in soon with the specs you want. It will still have "the sound". If you want to do it then go for it.

  34. #47

    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    In the above mentioned post I made to this thread, the 2021 was on hold when I called about it. Shortly after, I got a call that the buyer had changed their mind so I purchased this one. Gold Waverly's with ebony buttons, Gold James tailpiece, gold hardware and what looks like gold frets (EVO) i'm assuming, but I don't know if Paul offers these or not in EVO frets, it could be just gold fret wire. I got it yesterday about noon. I let acclimate over night and opened this morning and WOW, I'm blown away. It has a 1 1/16" nut, flat finger board and I love the tone. Mid-rangy, punchy and cuts like a knife, but also sounds sweet and focused at the same time. I'm a fan for sure. I'll post some pics in a NMD thread shortly. It was really made in late 2020 but I assume the buyer didn't purchase until early 2021. Serial number indicates made in 2020. Oh, this is the only A style Paul has mad with side bound binding.

  35. #48
    Registered User darylcrisp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    I had yesterday eve to spend with this Duff and I have fully decided to return it. It has the tone I'm looking to add. It will not replace the others, but will be the flavor missing.

    I may investigate the 2 point further as I do like that shape the most of any that I have owned. I'm requesting pictures of that one today.

    I've also found a fairly recent 2 point randy wood I have requested info on. Wouldn't mind a Kimble either.

    So this being a very probable last mandolin purchase, I've decided to back away on this current Duff and search out a better overall fit.

    My other two mandolins that fit me perfect in every way, took a while to procure. There's no need to rush the third and last.

    Highly appreciate everyone's thoughts and ideas in the thread.

    So.........anyone owned a 2 point Randy Wood or Kimble?

  36. #49

    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    Quote Originally Posted by darylcrisp View Post
    I had yesterday eve to spend with this Duff and I have fully decided to return it. It has the tone I'm looking to add. It will not replace the others, but will be the flavor missing.

    I may investigate the 2 point further as I do like that shape the most of any that I have owned. I'm requesting pictures of that one today.

    I've also found a fairly recent 2 point randy wood I have requested info on. Wouldn't mind a Kimble either.

    So this being a very probable last mandolin purchase, I've decided to back away on this current Duff and search out a better overall fit.

    My other two mandolins that fit me perfect in every way, took a while to procure. There's no need to rush the third and last.

    Highly appreciate everyone's thoughts and ideas in the thread.

    So.........anyone owned a 2 point Randy Wood or Kimble?
    Mike Compton played a RW 2-pt early in his career. There is a new pumpkin color topped one on RW’s website for sale (NFI).

    As I understand it, Paul Duff feels like the 2-Pt really sits between his A and F sonically. (His As have a slightly larger body, so they are not just Fs without curls and points).

  37. #50

    Default Re: Duff A style mandolins, like to hear owner thoughts, some ?

    The Duff 2-pt. should look and sound like this…
    https://youtu.be/97KD4aTaJZ8

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