Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Lebanon, NH
    Posts
    13

    Default A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    Name:  BBA5A96D-5395-4B78-858E-F60B63034A65.jpg
Views: 937
Size:  686.0 KB


    Name:  AC27F00F-C140-4D9D-BE32-54D863782996.jpeg
Views: 862
Size:  1.74 MB


    Name:  2189C992-0FA3-4F18-8AFA-3EFA150B0ACD.jpeg
Views: 867
Size:  1.79 MB


    Name:  68E3F16E-9E60-4CE1-A9C4-4E253285CB2D.jpg
Views: 856
Size:  747.2 KB


    Name:  52DDB972-ECCF-42DC-BE42-4676E198330A.jpg
Views: 833
Size:  658.9 KB


    Name:  2BB3631C-42A9-4F15-B8EA-9866A9B9F30D.jpg
Views: 794
Size:  686.6 KB


    Name:  4AFAE7AC-9D12-4C7A-9E73-B537251B681C.jpeg
Views: 785
Size:  341.3 KB


    Hi everyone. I’m new here. A search for information on this Brandt mandolin brought me right to mandolin cafe. I had never seen a mandolin with this unique violin scroll head stock and these proprietary design on plate tuners before. Stamping on the tuner plate is J Brandt AUG 23 98. Even broken it’s one of the prettiest bowl back mandolins I’ve seen.

  2. The following members say thank you to Wonkenstein for this post:


  3. #2
    Registered User DougC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    1,870
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    I have a deluxe model dated 1899. It needs some work now, but it was a very nice mandolin when it was given to me. I played it for a couple of years before some worry some rib separation developed. It has three labels inside, one says Jos. Brandt - Chicago.

    Are you rebuilding the head stock?

    Here are a few photos.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Brandt mandolin 1899.jpg 
Views:	79 
Size:	292.4 KB 
ID:	198665

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Brandt headstock mandolin.jpg 
Views:	89 
Size:	240.3 KB 
ID:	198666
    Decipit exemplar vitiis imitabile

  4. The following members say thank you to DougC for this post:


  5. #3
    Registered User DougC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    1,870
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    I noticed that the neck on mine is painted black. Someone may have worked on this one. (And I'd probably leave the paint off too.)
    Decipit exemplar vitiis imitabile

  6. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Lebanon, NH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    Hi Doug C - that Deluxe model of yours looks to be a real beauty! Yes, I have already started repairing the head stock on this one. I have repaired a few guitar head stocks but with those there is more glue surface area to work with and you can always rout out a couple of small channels and insert hardwood splines. There isn’t much original wood to work with on this mandolin. Fortunately it was a clean break and the two pieces fit right back together like puzzle pieces. I noticed on your instrument that the volute at the heel of the head stock is much more substantial than it is on this one I’m working on. And that could also be the difference in each instrument having a hand carved one piece neck, too. I’ll post more images as I decide how to approach reinforcing the repair. Meanwhile I’m hoping to find out which model it is.

  7. The following members say thank you to Wonkenstein for this post:


  8. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Lebanon, NH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    I’m definitely not going to paint the headstock. After I get it structurally solid I’ll stick to staining, tinting and blending for a spot finish repair. I don’t think it’s ever a good idea to try and hide a repair, but rather make the wood and finish repair in such a way that it’s neat and well done so you can see a good repair and show it to somebody as a repaired instrument.

  9. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Lebanon, NH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    By the way what is the date of the stamping on the tuner plate of your Brandt? Other mandolin builders of this period used plate mounted tuners but Brandt patented this particular style. It looks like your tuners are the same proprietary design as the one I’m working on.

  10. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Lebanon, NH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    Here’s the label inside the sound hole. I’ll see about getting an image of what’s on the neck block
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	D19E785E-CC7A-47F5-9E34-3E7D4F6C07B6.jpg 
Views:	71 
Size:	883.7 KB 
ID:	198696  

  11. #8
    Registered User Tom C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Warwick, NY
    Posts
    3,985

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    I have same one....Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1145.JPG 
Views:	95 
Size:	141.4 KB 
ID:	198697

  12. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Lebanon, NH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    Sure does look to be identical. I can’t make out the binding in your image but does yours have mother of pearl inlay around the top along with the celluloid binding?

  13. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Lebanon, NH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    Here’s a little detail of the binding on this one.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	93583A5A-FFE0-403B-B2EB-DE9936F73F01.jpg 
Views:	64 
Size:	636.4 KB 
ID:	198699Click image for larger version. 

Name:	212737A4-3519-4606-925C-28FDD7AD3099.jpg 
Views:	72 
Size:	1.62 MB 
ID:	198700
    It’s got mother of pearl all around the body and around the sound hole in addition to the black and white celluloid. A few pieces are loose here and there and there’s a couple of missing pieces.

  14. #11
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,736

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    I think the problem with these and with early Lyon & Healy scrolled headstocks was that they had to rout out so much wood for the tuners it weakened that part of the neck. L&H later thickened the volute ( or whatever you call that area under the nut area) and those mandolins seem better made.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  15. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Lebanon, NH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    Hi Jim thanks for your reply. I agree with you - so much wood was chiseled out of these violin scroll headstocks that most of the strength had to come from that heavy tuner assembly. The way the neck was hand carved, one piece all the way with the angled headstock the grain at the headstock is effectively shorter and more vulnerable to breaking. It’s a very common issue on production guitars made by Gibson and Guild, especially those with one piece mahogany necks. I’ve had a few of those in the shop for the same type of repair. Many contemporary guitar builders use scarf joints on their necks to avoid the weaknesses of end grain at the heel and short grain at the headstock. Not a new technique - classical guitar builders have been doing this for decades. That said I think this Brandt is very pretty and I’ve got to appreciate the artistry and craftsmanship. Can’t wait to string it up and play it when the repairs are done. Nothing resonates better than an old broken in instrument!

  16. The following members say thank you to Wonkenstein for this post:

    DougC 

  17. #13
    Registered User DougC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    1,870
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    Here are some more pictures of my Brandt mandolin. Enlarge the pictures to see the detail.

    The tuning plate seems to wrap around the wood in this photo. I don't see evidence of routing.

    The binding seems to have just mother of pearl and wood. (no plastic). However there is plastic along the fingerboard. (peeling off near the headstock).

    Mine has two dates. The tuning plate says Aug. 23, 98. And the tailpiece says ... Pat. May 15, 94

    The date of the mandolin itself is probably on the label inside.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Brandt detail tuning plate.jpg 
Views:	67 
Size:	202.8 KB 
ID:	198862
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Brandt binding.jpg 
Views:	65 
Size:	262.2 KB 
ID:	198863
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Brandt plate patent date.jpg 
Views:	66 
Size:	412.3 KB 
ID:	198864
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Brandt tailpiece date.jpg 
Views:	68 
Size:	329.5 KB 
ID:	198865
    Decipit exemplar vitiis imitabile

  18. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Lebanon, NH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	676B5E79-2C87-4336-985C-7E5B406ACBED.jpeg 
Views:	54 
Size:	1.34 MB 
ID:	198922Click image for larger version. 

Name:	7DAABE11-F67C-4633-B28B-6B41B18D65B9.jpg 
Views:	62 
Size:	883.7 KB 
ID:	198923Click image for larger version. 

Name:	866A5AA3-A63D-4D0F-AC30-2BFFD0670A3A.jpeg 
Views:	63 
Size:	923.5 KB 
ID:	198924Hi Doug, your tuners have the same patent date as the mandolin I’m working on. And like yours there seems to be a different patent date on the tailpiece, looks like OCT 26 88. As far as your head stock being “routed” you won’t see any evidence of tool marks until you take the tuner assembly off. There’s no routing, just rough chisel marks. Knowing the front of the headstock would be concealed I’m guessing they weren’t worried about the tool marks. I was able to get a shot of the label on the neck block but I really can’t see the model number. The serial number is clear.

  19. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Lebanon, NH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: A year later the Brandt is playable and sounds very nice

    I still haven’t been able to find out the model or style of this one and I’ll probably be looking for a tailpiece cover for a while, but this mandolin is very playable now, has a nice action and the GHS ultralight .009” - .032” strings as recommended here on the forum seem to be the perfect tension. She has been up to pitch for almost three days, no pulling or up bow on the neck at all. The midrange is particularly sweet and resonant on this one, similar to a well played early 1900s Gibson A Style but not as much volume. I’m wondering if she’s going to wake up a bit more and get a little louder - she’s been sleeping for a long time. I have no idea how long she stayed broken in the case before it came to me, but I was really pleased after I had strung it up and played it. The bridge Imused came from a 70s Suzuki bowl back, rosewood with a bone saddle. It didn’t need much in the way of profiling to match the spruce top contour and I literally took a couple of millimeters off the top of the saddle to get the action

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_4522.jpg 
Views:	32 
Size:	579.6 KB 
ID:	208897[ATTACH=CONFIG]208898Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_4526.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	516.4 KB 
ID:	208899
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_4523.jpg 
Views:	69 
Size:	972.1 KB 
ID:	208898  

  20. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Lebanon, NH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: A year later the Brandt is playable and sounds very nice

    So if anyone knows of a tailpiece cover for one of these patented Brandt tailpieces, keep me posted. Otherwise this baby is perfectly playable and I’m really enjoying the tone this one makes.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_4243.jpg 
Views:	31 
Size:	525.4 KB 
ID:	208900
    Last edited by Wonkenstein; Aug-08-2023 at 3:32pm. Reason: Had a duplicate post

  21. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Lebanon, NH
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: A friend acquired this Brandt with a broken headstock

    Hi Tom,

    Are you able to see the label on the neck block through the sound hole? I’m curious as to what style this mandolin is - the label on mine has a blank square where the letter indicating the style would be.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •