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Thread: Getting started questions (intonation, setup, instruction)

  1. #1

    Default Getting started questions (intonation, setup, instruction)

    Hi, everyone.

    I just wrapped up a thread asking for suggestions for my first mandolin (I went with an Eastman to start) and now I have some questions about getting started with setup and instruction materials.

    How far out is the intonation usually on a mandolin? Can you usually get it pretty much spot on? On my new mandolin I have noticed that when the A strings are in tune open the fretted notes are a bit flat. But it doesn't seem to have this problem on the D and E strings, so if I nudge the bridge up to fix the A the others would be off. I saw some intonation advice that suggested setting the E and G strings, but it seemed like it just assumed that the D and A would be right when those were right. It seems unlikely that Eastman would not have their bridge compensation right for the usual strings, but on mine right now I'm just having a problem with the one (A) set of strings.

    Is the recommended action height at the first fret in Mr. Meldrum's setup book (~0.011 for A and E and ~0.013 or0.014 for the G and D) what most of you have on your mandolins? Mine came with the A and E around there but the G and D are higher.

    The intonation issue is my main setup concern right now, the action height is discussed pretty thoroughly in Mr. Meldrum's document, I was just wondering how much people stray from that based on preference for feel, volume, etc.

    As far as instruction - have many of you found books and/or videos to be sufficient, or noticed a real need for private instruction? I know this will vary by person, just looking for different opinions and experiences. I've been an off and on guitar player for ~25 years. So I'm not a total beginner at picking / fretting, but I don't want to bring over any (probably a bit sloppy) guitar technique that I shouldn't to the mandolin. Have videos and books been enough for most of you to get going correctly on the mandolin as far as technique, or have you found that you really needed a human to watch you and make corrections?

    Any favorite instruction materials (books, youtube channels, video lesson service, etc.)? Bluegrass isn't my main interest (although it has been growing on me), but I'm fine with a bluegrass focused instruction if that's what's best to get me going on the instrument.


    Thanks for your help.

    Mark

  2. #2

    Default Re: Getting started questions (intonation, setup, instruction)

    Sure others will chime in re set-up.
    I am just starting Mandolin (had it about 5 days!) and a useful resource I have found is Mandolessons.com free though you can donate which I will if continue to find useful.

  3. #3
    Registered User
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    Default Re: Getting started questions (intonation, setup, instruction)

    Welcome aboard, mcm!
    I’m nobody’s expert, being just five months into playing the mandolin myself, so I chose to take my new-to-me mandolin to a luthier for its first setup. I’m capable and have on hand most of what I’d need to do it at home (all but the files for the nut) but I opted to have it done by a luthier. As I learn the instrument I’ll be doing future setup checks myself. Setup is especially important on mandolin due to the short scale. Small differences are very noticeable.

    In this thread https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...by-Rob-Meldrum go to post #3 to get Rob Meldrum’s excellent (and free to mandolin cafe folks) how-to on setting up a mandolin. It’s a comprehensive and very clear treatise on setups and even if you don’t do it yourself, reading it will let you understand your mandolin much better.

    For instruction, there’s a tremendous amount online, some free and some paid, so try several things to figure out what works for you. We all learn differently. Here are a few:

    https://www.mattflinner.com/
    https://www.pegheadnation.com/
    https://www.homespun.com/
    https://www.mandolessons.com/
    https://www.timsmandolessons.com/

    Or google “online mandolin lessons” for lots more.

    Matt Hutchinson has a podcast of fiddle tunes that’s wonderful for practicing. His thread here is at https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...-along-podcast

    Good luck and enjoy your new mandolin!
    A couple years in, now, and still learning!
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  4. #4
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting started questions (intonation, setup, instruction)

    According to OP, he already has Mr. Meldrum’s document

    mcm, I suppose Meldrum’s measurements are a fine starting place, I’ve never really used feeler gauges, micrometers, etc. when doing setups, though I’ve spent over half a century playing stringed instruments and doing my own setup work. Setup for string action is down to personal preference for most long term players. I am one who prefers the lowest possible action whether on guitar or mandolin. On the nut, I want my action to be a similar distance from nut to first fret as it is from first to second fret. Here’s what I mean:

    Hold the string down at first fret with index finger, then attentively fret at the second fret with middle finger … note the distance it takes to fret at second fret while holding down first fret.

    Now, fret the open string down to first fret. Is it a much greater distance for string to move down to first fret from the nut, than it is to move down to second fret from the first? If so, the action at nut is too high for my personal taste.

    Regarding learning materials, Mandolessons.com is a great place to start. The article for beginners at my website, linked in my signature, list a few other tips and resources.

    Happy mandolinning!

    ——————-

    edit~ Ah yes, on review, I remember your first most pressing question was about intonation. Setting intonation for open note to octave note on G string and E string is most common for sure. Other ways might be to set it so you get a good open E note and a good solid B note at 1st string 7th fret, and do the same for open G and D at 4th string seventh fret.

    Dont expect perfect intonation everywhere, it’s not possible. But if something is way off on the D or A strings after carefully setting the G and E, you should look to be certain the nut slots are cut with a proper angle and width, then see if you can further compensate the saddle until you’re happy. The compensated saddle is cut in the factory to a standard that may need a little tweaking for your particular instrument.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Getting started questions (intonation, setup, instruction)

    I'm with Mark on this. Sometimes I will go lower than what is measured at the second fret as there is less movement at the first fret. I want my instruments to play easily.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Getting started questions (intonation, setup, instruction)

    Intonation is always full of compromises. You should set the bridge location and angle so the E and G strings are good. Make sure the action is good and string slots fit right at both ends. Be sure the strings are new and the bridge is fit properly.

    If the intonation is noticeably bad as you are playing, if the compromises sound bad to your ear, then it should go to a luthier. They can see if there is a problem such as how nut slots are filed or can fine tune the compensation. It will never be perfect. String wear or changes and action can affect it. How hard you pick or press the string can move notes by a few cents.

  7. #7
    Every day is a gift. Sheila Lagrand's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting started questions (intonation, setup, instruction)

    My favorite online instruction for mandolins is offered by Don Julin at https://www.mandolinshealtheworld.com/ Among his other accomplishments, he wrote Mandolins for Dummies and Mandolin Exercises for Dummies. He's a wonderful instructor and musician.

    The book I've liked most is Mandolin: Complete Edition by Greg Horne and Wayne Fugate. It's three volumes printed together in one big book. You can stream or download audio that goes with the various bits in the book. That feature is common these days.

    By the way, I'm just beginning to learn guitar. You could private message me if you have any suggestions for me, as I don't want to turn your thread down a side street.
    Phoebe, my 2021 Collings MT mandolin
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Getting started questions (intonation, setup, instruction)

    "The book I've liked most is Mandolin: Complete Edition by Greg Horne and Wayne Fugate. It's three volumes printed together in one big book."
    Sheila,
    What styles does the book cover- in the Amazon blurb it only says blues and bluegrass. Like the OP I would also like a good tutorial book but also like the OP not especially interested in bluegrass - more folk and american roots music,
    Thanks

  9. #9
    Registered User Jill McAuley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting started questions (intonation, setup, instruction)

    There's been good online resources shared here and they're a great free/affordable way to get started, but I would also recommend getting a couple of real time (either in person or via Skype/Zoom) lessons with a good instructor as well, just so that someone with an experienced eye can give you feedback about your playing mechanics and technique. Just make sure they're actually an experienced mandolin instructor. Sometimes it can be common for guitar instructors at music shops to also offer mandolin, ukulele, whatever lessons but that doesn't always mean that they have good knowledge of the specific playing mechanics involved in playing the mandolin, which may lead them to treat it like a "little guitar" instead, not what you want from the perspective of best practices when getting started on mandolin.
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  10. #10
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting started questions (intonation, setup, instruction)

    I agree with Jill. If you have the time and financial means getting a mandolin instructor even for just a short time would be very beneficial.

    As others have mentioned, I like Barron's (free) videos at Mandolessons.com. Especially for learning to play fiddle tunes by ear.

    David Benedict has some great (and free) resources on YouTube as well as a lot of other inspiring mando-related content. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...2G0Gd1-grM2gkE

    Also, Peghead Nation (Cafe sponsor) might be worth a try. It's something like 20 a month for a subscription. Sharon Gilchrist teaches a beginners series.
    Worlds okay-ist mandolin player

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    https://youtube.com/@zachwilson54?si=iGum4xPlSj0pbcjj

  11. #11
    Registered User J Mangio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting started questions (intonation, setup, instruction)

    Andy Statman's Teach Yourself Bluegrass Mandolin.
    2021 The Loar LM700 VS

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