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Thread: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Anyone know the story on this one?

    https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/...419889431.html
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Hmmmm. At first glance, the mandolin looks genuine, except the tailpiece cover is from a plainer model teens or twenties instrument.

    But, it's craigslist. I will gently advise that any potential buyer make sure that the serial number is not missing or illegible, and meet the seller in sight of the Jacksonville police station, just in case . . . And bring a friend along.

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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    So, let me see if I understand this. Asking 85 grand but can't spring for a few photos? Just one more? He could at least show the label with the serial number. And it wouldn't hurt to include a bit of description. It's been up for 11 days; he's had time. This is the most indifferent effort of selling a very expensive item I've ever seen.

    This deserves to be posted to the "won't get a bid" thread too. Oh wait - not up for bid. Never mind.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    I will gently advise that any potential buyer make sure that the serial number is not missing or illegible, and meet the seller in sight of the Jacksonville police station, just in case . . . And bring a friend along.
    Maybe several friends, who play both hockey and the banjo!
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    I asked for more photos, date, and serial number. We'll see what develops.

    It's very easy to poach a photo from somewhere and put up a fake ad. The recommendation re: Jacksonville's finest should be taken seriously.

    Remember, though, Bill Monroe bought his Loar in Jacksonville and look how well things turned out for him!

    Here is The Photo. Obviously not an original case but kinda-sorta styled after the Loar case.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    His photo does not match any of the current listings that I know of, or any sold listings on reverb or gbase.
    It could be legit. But if I were going to sell a signed F-5, I would consign it with an established vintage dealer rather than posting it on craigslist. Craigslist is a risky choice for both buyer and seller.

    You could ask for a photo including today's newspaper.
    Even if that is furnished, along with photos of the other things, I'd still suggest that any meetings be held under very secure conditions.

    Martin, if you're considering this for yourself, be extra extra careful.

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    Registered User Jake Howard's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    The person selling said it was in pieces and Wayne Henderson put it back together including a new top, fingerboard and overlay. Might I add I love the color of it, Wayne's burst are great and it looks like a sunburst he would do. It doesn't jump out as a Loar finish right away to my eyes and that's what intrigued be about it when I inquired a few days back.

    Serial number is 76880 for all those mandolin archive nerds
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    Martin, if you're considering this for yourself, be extra extra careful.
    Thanks; I know I may come across as somewhat cavalier with respect to online purchases, notably with the Lyon & Healy that turned out to be refinished — but I assure you I would not be that cavalier regarding this instrument.

    Besides, I haven't the lettuce. I'd have to sell or trade most of what's in the stable.
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    So what's a re-topped, refinished Loar without labels worth? Reminds me of the 1936 re-topped, refinished D-28 at Elderly that no one know what to do with.

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    Registered User Jake Howard's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
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    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    At first look from the one photo, it looks the part to me but yes more pix and info needed! If all original 85K is a great price!

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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    I thing the whole thing is somewhat suspect. The headstock looks wrong for a Loar or for Click image for larger version. 

Name:	7A7BE804-27A8-4109-AD22-3682C3242C75.jpeg 
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ID:	198317Wayne Henderson’s work. The point of the binding doesn’t come around enough in a manner that would suggest the work of either source.

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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Can’t quite see the point in a re-topped “Loar”. You’ve probably heard of the legend of Robin Hood who stole from the rich and gave to the poor? There’s another one going round about the man who was half like Robin Hood insofar as he stole frfrom the rich and kept it!

  20. #15

    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Ship of Theseus Loar? I thought the top was the main component in a sacred Loar. So is this a reproduction, adaptation, improvement, or a wooden thing with a serial number that’s being sold?
    If one were to strip the paint off a Picasso, and have someone paint a copy over, what have you got?
    I sometimes forget we live in the time of the NFT, so answers are arbitrary.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Look, there are some modified Loars out there that have been around for decades. I would assume this is 76880 that JB has pointed out. It's not the only modified Loar signed instrument and it's not like it was re-topped by Mike Edgerton, it was re-topped by a more than competent luthier with a stellar reputation. There is one Loar that is in the archive that is a mandola body with a mandolin neck. They all stand alone and this one is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Being refinished doesn't make it worthless it just means it might be worth less than an unmodified instrument. To be honest if Monroe's mandolin had been owned by any of the rest of us and had been smashed and then reassembled in any way it wouldn't be the most valuable mandolin in the world but it would still have some value. Broaden your horizons. Also, for another 3 or 4 grand you might be able to grab a decent original case maybe less if you got lucky.
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    To clarify: The point of my posting the link to this SN's entry in the Archive was to direct local experts - and there are many here who know much more about such matters than I - to it, so they would see what I had seen: nothing, as far as I could tell. If I'm interpreting the information correctly, there is a serial number, a Virzi serial number, no FON, and a vague "shipping date" of 1924. I was hoping there would be more photos, a description, something - but no, that was it. It made me suspicious, as I thought someone could couple this entry with a randomly selected photo of an F-5 in order to lend credence to a spurious offer of a sale. I've always believed that Dan takes pains to ascertain the veracity of submitted entries to the Archive, but someone could conceivably use the information there for nefarious purposes. I'm not saying this is what is happening in this instance, just that it could be. I may notice things, but I don't always know what they mean. And I hoped people with more thorough knowledge of mandolins would take a look at this admittedly skimpy amount of evidence and deduce more about this instrument. All I could add was that I thought it odd that the seller didn't mention the Virzi. One would think he would, that being an important feature. But then, there is barely any description at all in the listing.

    So I leave it to those better equipped to do some sleuthing to do just that. Thanks for letting me bend your ears - or eyes.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    I don't think there are any conclusions that can be made about this beyond what we already know.

    We have an ad. We have one picture. We know that the seller did respond to an inquiry with a small amount of additional info. He provided a serial number, and stated that the mandolin had been re-topped. We know that the market value of a re-topped F-5 would be much less than the value of one in original condition. That is all we know.

    We can "might" about this for pages. But anything that we could say would be conjecture.
    Anyone who truly wants to know more would have to contact the seller. Without pictures and/or an attempt to make an appointment to view the instrument, nothing else can be said.
    Last edited by rcc56; Dec-25-2021 at 12:52am.

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    well, here at least are a few more photos from the seller ...
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    If I was trying to make it hard to sell this mandolin, I would replicate this seller's methodology. It makes no sense, not least as I am sure many reputable instrument retailers would be happy to sell it on commission as long as they had all the necessary provenance/bona fides which is exactly what any prospective buyer needs. Its true market value would be found over time with a buyer at a certain agreed price- which could take many months to achieve. I regret not buying a 1934 Nick Lucas guitar on eBay but my reluctance was down to the fact that the seller was clearly an ******** and was too far away to visit to inspect the instrument in person and what he lacked in knowledge, he made up for with sarcasm and a basic lack of courtesy.

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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    But still no photo of the label with serial number. That should be in the first batch of photos displayed. Its absence makes me wonder why.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

    Furthering Mandolin Consciousness

    Finders Keepers, my duo with the astoundingly talented and versatile Patti Rothberg. Our EP is finally done, and available! PM me, while they last!

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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Some questions:

    1) If one wanted a mandolin to play, would you pay that much for one you probably won't be able to play for long before purchase?

    2) If one wanted a historic artefact either as an investment or for the historical interest, would you want one with the major component you look at replaced?

    3) Should you ever need to sell your investment, are potential buyers not going to be asking the questions in previous posts?

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Some (of my) answers:

    1 - High cost works in two ways. In one way one might not want to spend that much for anything without some significant hands on. The other thought is that one might purchase a very rare very storied instrument (assuming a level of trust etc.) without the chance of a thorough hands on, trusting that the (verified) provenance and sound/playability aspects represented by that provenance hold true for the particular instrument in question. I am not saying I would, but there is some sense that not letting it get away is more important than dawdling over every inch of it while waffling over a decision.

    2 - I personally would not be going after a mandolin as in investment or collection. I only ever want players. I have said in other threads that if I suddenly inherited or won or was gifted a signed Loar, I would sure play it for a few weeks, but I would sell it. I could probably buy 8 or 10 very very very good mandolins for the money I would raise. Mandolins i did not have to baby, or worry about.

    3 - I never take into account anything about selling an instrument. I don't do catch and release, I do catch and keep and play the potatoes out of it. Should I be in a very very scratchy situation and have to sell, I would just sell at the price I could get to solve the problems I need to solve.
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    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    So, it’s a rebuilt, retopped Loar. Suffered some unknown damage that caused major structural failure (water perhaps?).

    It’s funny to me that no one in the past has commented on the retopped instruments that flow through the classifieds, including at least 2 Henderson constructed instruments that were retopped in his shop.

    If I were in the market, I’d be very leary. As it is, somewhere down the line someone else will buy it at some price.

    Makes an interesting story.
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    Default Re: A Loar on Craigslist? Yes sir!

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Some (of my) answers:
    ... and some fine answers at that ...

    I only ever want players. ... if I suddenly inherited or won or was gifted a signed Loar, I would sure play it for a few weeks, but I would sell it. I could probably buy 8 or 10 very very very good mandolins for the money I would raise.
    I understand. And yet ... If I ever acquired by some such happy happenstance an instrument so fine, I would never sell it - I have never sold an instrument - and certainly not for the chance to buy more mandolins, even so many of them. I've already got all I want, (pretty much ) so I have no need or desire to acquire more. And I'm more or less all right financially, so I've no need to raise funds. And anyway, if I may paraphrase from "The Furry Freak Brothers:" Mandolins will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no mandolins. So if a signed Loar were to magically appear, free and clear, I would play it till I could no more. I've never had the fortune to play one, nor for that matter all that much of a hankering to, but I'd be fine with giving it a try. That would be the player from heaven, as far as I'm concerned. Of course, how much I would play it would sort of depend on whether it sounded better than my plain A ...

    I do catch and keep and play the potatoes out of it.
    So then, they're catch potatoes?
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

    Furthering Mandolin Consciousness

    Finders Keepers, my duo with the astoundingly talented and versatile Patti Rothberg. Our EP is finally done, and available! PM me, while they last!

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