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Thread: A Question on Setup and Action Height

  1. #1

    Default A Question on Setup and Action Height

    I let a couple years go by without playing, and now that I've gotten around to picking it back up again I figured it was time to finally get myself something nice and quit struggling with cheap mandolins. I bought a used Breedlove American KF, and everything seems basically in order, the sound is nice, action is nice and low close to the nut.

    Farther down the neck, however, it rises significantly (see attached photo). My understanding is that with the first fret held down the string should only be a few thousandths of an inch above the twelfth fret, but mine looks like it's closer to an eighth. This is with the bridge lowered as much as I could, backing the grub screws all the way out on the adjustable bridge, but it's still at that height. I assume moving the bridge on the carved body could lower it farther, but the intonation seems to be just about perfect right where it's at.

    I took it to a local guitar repair guy who said he could set up a mandolin, but all he could think to do for it was adjust the truss rod a little bit, which didn't seem to make much of a difference. What I'm wondering is

    1. Is this action height a problem? I've never played a mandolin that wasn't something in the few-hundred-dollar range from a local shop, so I don't have first hand experience with a well setup instrument. I'm just going off of what I've found online about the ideal string distance. It feels like it plays easier than other mandolins I've played, but I don't know how much easier it could be.
    2. Assuming it does need to go down farther, are there other approaches that a luthier more experienced with mandolins could take to get it set up properly? I really like this thing and getting it properly set up would be ideal, but I've also got a limited return window so if there's just something wrong with the instrument I'd like to figure it out as quickly as possible



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  2. #2
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Question on Setup and Action Height

    Get hold of @robmeldrum's book.

    It may need a fret level. Or the top may have sunk a bit.

    But I think it’s repairable.
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  3. #3
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: A Question on Setup and Action Height

    Quote Originally Posted by robertbieber View Post
    Farther down the neck, however, it rises significantly (see attached photo). My understanding is that with the first fret held down the string should only be a few thousandths of an inch above the twelfth fret, but mine looks like it's closer to an eighth.
    That is wrong. You probably confused it with measuring nut slots height where string fretted at fret two should miss the first fret by a split hair.

    Quote Originally Posted by robertbieber View Post
    This is with the bridge lowered as much as I could, backing the grub screws all the way out on the adjustable bridge, but it's still at that height. I assume moving the bridge on the carved body could lower it farther, but the intonation seems to be just about perfect right where it's at.
    Moving the bridge will kill your intonation (lowering will change it a bit too, so you need to nudge the bridge a bit to get back to good enough intonation for given height).
    Normally the relief of fingerboard should be minimal on mandolins meaning almost straight or if you fret at 1st and at neck heel (12th or so) the string acts as a straightedge and should barely float above the frets in the middle. The action at 12 the fret should be somewhere around 1/16". On thin strings can be lower if you don't play hard. For light gauge strings you may want to go tiny bit higher than for heavier strings.
    All this is assuming your frets are in good shape. If your frets are worn or installed unevenly you may need to rise the action or get them levelled or replaced before setting up neck relief and action.
    If your bridge is bottomed and action still too high I would check if the neck joint didn't move under string tension lowering the neck angle (especially if the bridge is original factory bridge that should be of correct height allowing adjustment). There is possibility that top has risen only iff the humidity is way too high, but generally this time of year it is opposite and arched tops generally sink a bit with winter time (lower humidity in cold months).
    Adrian

  4. #4

    Default Re: A Question on Setup and Action Height

    Yes, you've muddled height above the 12th with height over the 1st.

    Height at the 12th is set to match the player's needs. So if the instrument plays nicely, and you can get all the notes cleanly and comfortably, your 12th fret height is perfect for you!

    As a rough guide, 1.5mm (1/16 inch) is pretty low - the instrument needs to have level frets to play cleanly, and heavy picking might cause buzzing on some frets. 3mm (1/8 inch) is too high to be comfortable up the neck with steel strings, though some nylon stringed instruments might need 3mm or even more there.

    From your picture I'd say you are well under 1/8, probably somewhere around 2mm. Even so, it would be good to have downward adjustment in case you want lower action as you play further up the neck. A picture of your bridge might tell us if that can be achieved - as an example, if there is a lot of meat in the top part (saddle), the base of that part can be sanded down.

    To measure the action height at the 12th you want the distance between the top of the fret and the underside of the string. If you don't have a good steel ruler and good eyes, then find a coin that fits, measure a stack of those coins and divide to get a fairly accurate number.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: A Question on Setup and Action Height

    If I remember Breedlove mandolins have a bolt on neck. Check to see the bolts are tight, that could raise action even if only a little loose. It will tighten with a special wrench thru the endpin.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  6. #6

    Default Re: A Question on Setup and Action Height

    Thank for the input y'all. I got some feeler gauges out and it looks like the actual clearance between 12th fret and string is a hair over 1mm, is that in the range where I should just go ahead and play it as is? It doesn't feel particularly tough to play to me, but again I've never played a really well tuned mandolin so it's hard for me to really judge

  7. #7
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    Default Re: A Question on Setup and Action Height

    1mm is close to 1/32" that is a nice very low action. Play it an enjoy.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  8. #8
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: A Question on Setup and Action Height

    I got re-frets done .. it came back adjusted great..

    2 needed the fingerboard leveled in the process..

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