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Thread: Para DI fix/help quack?

  1. #1

    Default Para DI fix/help quack?

    I've got a Shatten UTS pickup who's quack is bugging me, specially when I dig in to the strings.
    Can't afford a Fishman Aura, but I do happen to have a Baggs Para DI.

    Would this help eliminate the quack, or would I be better off with a K+K internal pickup, and the Baggs? My only reservation is that I slide my pinky on my body all the time ( Michael Kelly A+ w/o a pickguard ). I'm afraid of the noise factor.

    Been looking for a pickguard, without much luck. Only find one choice. Not sure if it's right for my mando.

    Thanks for any and all help!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    Any transducer will benefit from a preamp, any preamp designed for a transducer. The Quack is from the impedance mismatch. The Para will help.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    Any transducer will benefit from a preamp, any preamp designed for a transducer. The Quack is from the impedance mismatch. The Para will help.
    I run my mandolin thru a Digitech RP355 for effects. Isn't that a preamp ( definitely has EQ )?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    It’s not so much a preamp you require as a means of matching the impedance of the pickup (I hate the term “transducer” - a lightbulb is a transducer!) to that of whatsoever you choose to plug it into.

    The imput impedance of the Baggs Para DI is suitable (around 1 Meg Ohms) but so are the inputs of most acoustic amps. If you’re going into a mixing desk, however, some form of preamp or impedance matching buffer would be advisable.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    Any effect pedal with an input impedance of 1Meg Ohms will act as a buffer. You don't need to engage the "effect" just need to power up the pedal.

    As far as further tone shaping goes-I note that the current Boss GE-7 graphic EQ pedal has a 1 Meg Ohm input impedance, whereas older models were considerably lower (too low), as I recall. ( The Boss Bass EQ GEB-7 has always been 1 Meg Ohm, I think.) Early users of piezo pickups often resorted to those early GE-7 graphics to try and tame them, usually ending up with an extreme setting of bass boost and treble cut. A current GE-7 model, properly buffering, should give scope for more subtle tone control.

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  7. #6

    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray(T) View Post
    It’s not so much a preamp you require as a means of matching the impedance of the pickup (I hate the term “transducer” - a lightbulb is a transducer!) to that of whatsoever you choose to plug it into.

    The imput impedance of the Baggs Para DI is suitable (around 1 Meg Ohms) but so are the inputs of most acoustic amps. If you’re going into a mixing desk, however, some form of preamp or impedance matching buffer would be advisable.
    Thanks for the info Ray. I'm actually going into a Bose L-1 channel that doesn't have any EQ. The EQ and effects was why I was going through the Digitech. AND the hope to eliminate that quack!

  8. #7

    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    Thanks Mdowlin.......I see those bass EQ pedals around. I'll have to give them a try.

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    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    Quote Originally Posted by brianstear View Post
    Thanks for the info Ray. I'm actually going into a Bose L-1 channel that doesn't have any EQ. The EQ and effects was why I was going through the Digitech. AND the hope to eliminate that quack!
    Like most things Bose, there is a dearth of facts and figures on their website so we don’t actually know the impedance of the L1 inputs. The XLR part will undoubtedly be low impedance to cope with mics whereas the jack sockets are likely to be high impedance adequate for an electric guitar but not high enough to cope with a piezo pickup.

  10. #9

    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    The Red Eye is one ≤$200 preamp that gets good reviews for interfacing with K&K in the acoustic guitar world.

    Of course, the sure fire solution to quack (and for a more natural tone) is a quality small diameter condenser mic.

  11. #10

    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    Well, I tried the Para DI.....tonally, was much better, but still lost volume on the treble strings when I played harder. So it acted like the quack, W/O the tinny quack tone.
    Pooh.

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    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    I am thinking a good setup is in order. Does it loose volume on the treble strings when played hard acoustically?
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  13. #12
    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    Triton piezo BigAmp, easy, cheap, simple.
    https://www.tritonaudio.com/bigamp-piëzo
    NFI
    I use a ToneDexter and keep the BigAmp as a backup
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    Too many microphones

    BridgerCreekBoys.com

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    Looked at those before but never used one. Probably a good solution but it depends upon whatever you’re trying to plug into having phantom power available.

  15. #14
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    I believe under-saddle transducers (UST's) are always more prone to distortion than soundboard transducers (SBT's). That's the nature of piezoelectric pickups. They work by generating a small millivolt signal in response to an applied strain. That signal gets amplified and becomes an electronic representation of the vibration of the strings imparted to the saddle or soundboard.

    An SBT (like a K&K or JJB) is mounted to the underside of the soundboard (or bridgeplate where applicable). The strain is transferred to the pickup when the soundboard vibrates. When not being played the SBT is under no strain.

    An UST is pinched between the saddle and slot in the bridge and is always under strain from the downward force on the saddle caused by tensioning the strings. This biases the output toward distortion.

    I've installed JJB SBT's in dozens of instruments from fiddles to mandola to ukuleles to banjos to guitars and an upright bass. I've used these with many pre-amps - ART, Behringer ADI-21, K&K Pure, and a RedEye. Due to their high input impedance I've never had the dreaded piezo quack, which as mentioned earlier is usually caused by an impedance mismatch between the piezo output (megohm range) and the amp/preamp input (kilohm range). An impedance mismatch can't be EQ'ed away - it requires a correct match. On my Carvin AG300 acoustic and I can select HI Z (high impedance) on the input and plug straight in with no preamp, pedal, eq, etc. Your Baggs should work to match the impedance.

    Since your mando (Michael Kelly) is on the affordable end of the spectrum you may not want to sink a lot into upgrades on it specifically. A good preamp (like your Baggs) can be used with any piezo equipped instrument (UST or SBT). Or if you're handy JJB's are relatively inexpensive and not too hard to install.

  16. #15
    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Question Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    Input hand shake of (X) Megaohm impedance out put of pickup and the expectation of that PA-DI numbers close to each other?

    Baggs company does produce a pickup with such an impedance, so one expects they pair well ...

    K&K and Fishman also make pickups and preamps.



    Long ago I bought a low impedance Schertler Dyn M,

    so I'm mostly a spectator to all this Piezoelectric pickup issues

    But i realize they are popular here..
    Last edited by mandroid; Feb-23-2022 at 3:50pm.
    writing about music
    is like dancing,
    about architecture

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    The piezo is a 1 Meg ohm impedance, the Baggs input is 10 Meg. The RedEye is 1 Meg, as is the K&K. I think the closer your match the better your sound.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  18. #17

    Default Re: Para DI fix/help quack?

    I had a PARA Di and the Red Eye sounded much better. Try a Red Eye and compare.

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