Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

  1. #1

    Default Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

    I'm tackling this for the first time (with the mandolin). I am assuming that all of the 32nd notes throughout the first movement are pulled off. And that in the 16th note legato phrase in measure 11 each of the notes are picked individually? Thanks.

  2. The following members say thank you to timrobwall for this post:


  3. #2
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Posts
    1,384

    Default Re: Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

    Good piece. In both passages, it's really your decision to make. Have you listened to some other players playing this on mandolin? What did they do in those spots? And what tempo are you trying for?

    Of course, if you're playing with a group, everyone should do the same the articulation.

    By the way, posting the solo part here in the thread would make discussion a lot easier.

  4. The following members say thank you to Bruce Clausen for this post:


  5. #3
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    23,907
    Blog Entries
    55

    Default Re: Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

    I agree. It's your decision, unless you are playing in an ensemble, in which case it it needs to be unanimous.
    Life is short, play hard. Life is really really short, play really really hard.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  6. The following members say thank you to JeffD for this post:


  7. #4

    Default Re: Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Vivaldi.jpg 
Views:	105 
Size:	115.1 KB 
ID:	196677

  8. #5

    Default Re: Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

    Looking more closely at the music (when all else fails, right), it looks like it wants the first three measures played legato, which I would think means pull offs?

  9. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

    Look for the YouTube videos of Catarina Lichtenberg or Avi Avital. They both appear to be picking those notes rather than pull off. But certainly is your choice.
    Pava S/N 21
    Calace Bowlback

  10. The following members say thank you to Peter Coronado for this post:


  11. #7

    Default Re: Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

    Of course, the original designation is for "leuto" (lute) with no concept of plectrum technique or wire strings of any type in mind. Thus, performing RV 93 on modern mandolin functionally is transcription/arrangement/etc. I think a lot is thus left up to the interpretive choices/abilities of the performer and what works best in the context of whatever ensemble is at hand.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Eugene For This Useful Post:


  13. #8

    Default Re: Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

    PS: Unplucked slurs are much less common to mandolin than to other, longer scaled plucked instruments in "classical" contexts. Plucking each note (even within trill-like ornaments) is the classical-mandolin status quo. Tied notes are often taken as an indication of phrasing (not necessarily as a slur), an indication to cross strings with a single pick stroke (only for dedicated mandolin repertoire, usually in shorter note values, and usually pretty evident when it occurs), or (especially in the case of longer note values) to connect notes via tremolo. You'll note, as Peter alluded (you could add Julien Martineau to the list of those with easily found video), that most trained mandolinists who take up the lute concerto RV 93 approach those note groups as discrete all-plucked phrases.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Eugene For This Useful Post:


  15. #9
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    28,725

    Default Re: Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

    Easily and more conveniently seen here (rather than have to search elsewhere). Caterina's video is easier to see, Avi's is so dark...

    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    2018 Campanella A-5 -- 2007 Brentrup A4C -- 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin -- Huss & Dalton DS -- 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead -- '83 Flatiron A5-2 -- 1939 Gibson L-00 -- 1936 Epiphone Deluxe -- 1928 Gibson L-5 -- ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo -- ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo -- ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo -- National RM-1

  16. The following members say thank you to Jim Garber for this post:

    Eugene 

  17. #10

    Default Re: Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

    More than one of Avi is posted. This one's less dark:




    When the camera is on him, Julien's business is really evident:


  18. #11

    Default Re: Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

    Quote Originally Posted by timrobwall View Post
    Looking more closely at the music (when all else fails, right), it looks like it wants the first three measures played legato, which I would think means pull offs?
    But the end sound of that is a more percussive sound, rather than legato, at least on the mandolin, at least in my opinion, by plucking that D, you can get the ringing of the open d strings which makes it sound much more legato.
    Zachary Graft
    Celtic and Christian fiddle and mandolin music
    zacharygraft.com
    facebook.com/zacharygraftmusic
    youtube.com/c/zacharygraft

  19. #12
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Upstate New York
    Posts
    23,907
    Blog Entries
    55

    Default Re: Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    I agree. It's your decision, unless you are playing in an ensemble, in which case it it needs to be unanimous.
    I disagree with myself.

    Listening to the videos posted by Eugene and Jim, as well as some others, I think for mandolin, plucking each note sounds more appropriate. There is a recording with John Williams on guitar, and another with Julian Bream on lute, with pull offs , for contrast.

    But I think the mandolin is just a pluckier instrument.



    Life is short, play hard. Life is really really short, play really really hard.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  20. The following members say thank you to JeffD for this post:

    Eugene 

  21. #13
    Registered User Louise NM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    713

    Default Re: Basic Question: Vivaldi Concerto in D major RV 93

    The manuscript show slurs in the solo part as well as for the orchestra, and the string players are definitely using one bow for each of those little figures. Julian Bream gets good definition with pull-offs, but A) he's Julian Bream and we're not; and B) it's a lute. I can't imagine getting good clarity and the proper emphasis on those Ds with pull-offs on a mandolin.

    Also, the '70s called and they want those yellow turtlenecks back.

  22. The following members say thank you to Louise NM for this post:

    Eugene 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •