Left hand thumb soreness

[Rob Fowler]

Hi all,
So I've been playing my new mandolin a ton lately, trying to get a feel for it, and have developed some soreness in my thumb pad on my left hand. I guess I have been pressing it too hard on the back of the neck? I guess I should probably take a break as it just doesn't feel that great. Beside me taking a break from playing does anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks!

[Keith Johnston]

do you cradle the neck? If so where is your thumb on the neck, back side....?

[pops1]

Don't hold it like a guitar, cradle the neck between your thumb and index finger.

[Rob Fowler]

I don't even play guitar. Have solely played mandolin since 2004 and have never had that issue. I think it's just me getting use to the new shape oof my new mandos neck.

[Rob Fowler]

do you cradle the neck? If so where is your thumb on the neck, back side....?

How else does one hold a mandolin neck? Always hold it with my thumb and right below the first finger in general. Never "palm" the neck.

[mbruno]

It sounds like you're just pressing too hard and clamping down on the neck a lot. That's a common issue I see with students and, aside from thumb soreness, can significantly decrease your speed. If the neck of your old mandolin and new mandolin are significantly different, it's pretty common to over compensate for a bit while you get used to the new mandolin. The best advise here is to go back to basics for a bit.

Two suggestions that may help based on my teaching experience. The two suggestions can help figure out two different causes of this issue.

1. If you're using your thumb to add pressure. Try playing without your thumb at all for a practice (not something I'd suggest for live playing for obvious reasons). The point of this practice is to help your muscles / brain understand that the fingers should be putting the pressure on the mando and your thumb is just used to help stabilize things. While playing something at speed like this is challenging to at best, you should be able to play basic scales and chords without the use of your thumb.

2. If you're putting too much pressure on your fretting hand. Playing normally (with the thumb on the neck), fret a single note but don't press down - meaning you should get a muted sound. Then lightly increase the pressure on your finger until you get a clean note. Do the same thing for chords too. I'd bet that the amount of pressure you really need is a lot less than what you've been using - if that's the case, this should help you see that. Likely this will be the most help in this case.

That said, there's one more potential but since you state you've been playing since 2014 I assume this isn't the case. However, keep in mind your fretting hand should be straight from your arm through your wrist and hand. If your wrist bends significantly, it may cause you to put more pressure on your thumb to compensate. If this is the case, you need to review your form to get that straight line from your forearm through your wrist and hand - there are videos for this, but I'd recommend a teacher as it's a lot easier to overcome with someone objective to watch you.

Also, generally (though not always) you should line your thumb up with your middle finger give or take. Often I see people move the thumb closer to matching the first finger or going past that which can make fretting almost anything difficult and requires a lot of pressure to overcome (which in itself makes things more difficult).

[MontanaMatt]

I get a wicked callus on my first joint of my thumb when I play on a mandolin with finished neck. My mandolins are all speed necked(oiled)

[CarlM]

I will second Matt Bruno's recommendation about checking to see how much pressure you have been using. That exercise of touching the string and gradually increasing pressure till you just get a note to sound was an eye opener for me and every student I have shown it to. Any pressure beyond that only hurts your playing as well as your fingers. There are no benefits at all.

[Rob Fowler]

It sounds like you're just pressing too hard and clamping down on the neck a lot. That's a common issue I see with students and, aside from thumb soreness, can significantly decrease your speed. If the neck of your old mandolin and new mandolin are significantly different, it's pretty common to over compensate for a bit while you get used to the new mandolin. The best advise here is to go back to basics for a bit.

Two suggestions that may help based on my teaching experience. The two suggestions can help figure out two different causes of this issue.

1. If you're using your thumb to add pressure. Try playing without your thumb at all for a practice (not something I'd suggest for live playing for obvious reasons). The point of this practice is to help your muscles / brain understand that the fingers should be putting the pressure on the mando and your thumb is just used to help stabilize things. While playing something at speed like this is challenging to at best, you should be able to play basic scales and chords without the use of your thumb.

2. If you're putting too much pressure on your fretting hand. Playing normally (with the thumb on the neck), fret a single note but don't press down - meaning you should get a muted sound. Then lightly increase the pressure on your finger until you get a clean note. Do the same thing for chords too. I'd bet that the amount of pressure you really need is a lot less than what you've been using - if that's the case, this should help you see that. Likely this will be the most help in this case.

That said, there's one more potential but since you state you've been playing since 2014 I assume this isn't the case. However, keep in mind your fretting hand should be straight from your arm through your wrist and hand. If your wrist bends significantly, it may cause you to put more pressure on your thumb to compensate. If this is the case, you need to review your form to get that straight line from your forearm through your wrist and hand - there are videos for this, but I'd recommend a teacher as it's a lot easier to overcome with someone objective to watch you.

Also, generally (though not always) you should line your thumb up with your middle finger give or take. Often I see people move the thumb closer to matching the first finger or going past that which can make fretting almost anything difficult and requires a lot of pressure to overcome (which in itself makes things more difficult).

Real great advice, Matt! I think since the neck profile on my new mando is more of a soft V than the very pronounced V on my Collings i was pressing harder on my thumb. Will try these suggestions for sure!

[Glassweb]

I will second Matt Bruno's recommendation about checking to see how much pressure you have been using. That exercise of touching the string and gradually increasing pressure till you just get a note to sound was an eye opener for me and every student I have shown it to. Any pressure beyond that only hurts your playing as well as your fingers. There are no benefits at all.

In general I agree but not completely. There is a certain amount of pressure required on the string (and fretboard) to get a great tone, no matter what the mandolin. That is why it is ESSENTIAL to have your mandolin set up properly. This way a note can be fretted with greater pressure without hurting the fingers or hand. I am often stunned by new students trying to play mandolins with action that I would consider "unplayable". Also to make a good vibrato one must use more pressure. And always remember to play in between the frets and not on them!

[CarlM]

Good set up is essential. If he has not had the new mandolin set up by a professional the original poster should at least check it and have it set up if it is too high.

But pressing harder than the minimum necessary to get good tone does nothing good and everything bad. Even vibrato can be maintained with minimum pressure. The amount of pressure necessary to get good tone is far less than most people realize.

As far as finger position it should be just behind the fret, not on the fret and not halfway between. Placing halfway in the middle pulls the string slightly out of tune and contributes to the problem of requiring more pressure. Most people press too hard to make up for poor finger placement, either on the fret or halfway between rather than slightly behind. Of course with large fingers at higher fret positions you end up closer to the middle in order to stay off the fret.

[Rob Fowler]

Thanks Glassweb and CarlM. My new Northfield A5 special is well setup with a nice low action and is very easy to fret so that's not the issue. I think it really does have to do with: 1) the newer, slightly thicker neck profile that I am not yet used to and; 2) me actually having a tendency to fret too hard. Another possible issue is that I tried out set of heavy Daddario's nuts to see how it sold affect the sound of the instrument and I haven't tried them for many years. I put some mediums on today and amazingly after having the mandolin for only a few weeks so far I already have a few marks in the frets.

Thanks!

[Don Grieser]

Northfield's do have bigger necks with more meat in the shoulders so there's something in the way of where your thumb is used to resting. Might have to relax the thumb more and move the neck farther out of the thumb/first finger V area. I find I have to do that when playing my mandola.

Why builders are still using nickel silver fret wire is beyond me. EVO is so superior. So what if it's gold colored.

Congrats on your new mando!

[mbruno]

This way a note can be fretted with greater pressure without hurting the fingers or hand.

To each their own for sure, but IMO, there's absolutely no need to press harder than it takes to get a clean note. All the pressure added after the clean note is obtained is going to slow you down at the least.

A quote I often think about when playing, "The lighter the touch, the sweeter the sound".