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Thread: My latest oud

  1. #1
    Jo Dusepo, luthier Dusepo's Avatar
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    Default My latest oud

    Here's my latest oud. This is a new shape I am calling the 'Shahed' model, which is designed to bring out certain harmonics after analysing the spectral analysis, and also be more comfortable to hold (the latter of course more subjective based on body shape!)

    I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.

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    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    That looks quite lovely and I like the shape.

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    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Nice and I am sure I asked this before but how are they tuned? I can't remember the answer.
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

    Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.

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    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Quote Originally Posted by John Bertotti View Post
    Nice and I am sure I asked this before but how are they tuned? I can't remember the answer.
    Oud tunings vary by national style and such. The most common tunings are, low to high :

    Arabic: CFADGC

    Turkish: actual pitch (Turkish music is often written transposed) C# F# B E A D

    The top 4 courses are always in 4ths; the 2 lower courses can be tuned various ways depending on the player and the piece of music, but the above are very common tunings.

    Turkish ouds are usually shorter scale than Arabic ouds and tend to be tuned a step higher; there are also Arabic tunings with a high F 1st course.

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  9. #5
    Jo Dusepo, luthier Dusepo's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Quote Originally Posted by John Bertotti View Post
    Nice and I am sure I asked this before but how are they tuned? I can't remember the answer.
    This oud is tuned CGADGC. Same as the standard tuning mentioned above, but the G drone works quite well for a lot of Persian/Iranian music.
    I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.

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  11. #6
    Registered User John Kelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    You always set a high standard for you instruments, Jo. The thought of spectral analysis to help determine an instrument's shape is fascinating. I have seen experiments using fine sand on a soundboard which was secured over a loudspeaker assembly then notes of different pitches were played through the speaker and the sand adopted particular wave patterns. Bracing patterns could be studied in this way. I seem to remember this was called a Chladni plate(?) Is spectral analysis a more modern development of this idea?
    I'm playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order. - Eric Morecambe

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOldBores

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    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusepo View Post
    This oud is tuned CGADGC. Same as the standard tuning mentioned above, but the G drone works quite well for a lot of Persian/Iranian music.
    That is one of the alternate tunings; I use that for certain maqamat; also DGADGC.

    Top strings stay at ADGC; another tuning I've used is BEADGC, all 4ths.

    It all depends on the piece of music and which if any open string low notes one needs.

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  15. #8
    Jo Dusepo, luthier Dusepo's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Here's a couple of short improvisations to show the sound:


    I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.

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  17. #9
    Barn Cat Mandolins Bob Clark's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Gorgeous sound on this one, Jo. Thanks for posting this!
    Purr more, hiss less. Barn Cat Mandolins Photo Album

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    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Ya yea very nice! Is it my old eyes or are only some strings a double course? Do any have triple courses?
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

    Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.

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  21. #11
    Jo Dusepo, luthier Dusepo's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Quote Originally Posted by John Bertotti View Post
    Ya yea very nice! Is it my old eyes or are only some strings a double course? Do any have triple courses?
    No triple courses. All double apart from the lowest (bam teli), which is single.
    I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.

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  23. #12
    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Thanks. I saw an instrument I thought might be an iud that had some triples. I wondered what it was. Thanks
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

    Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.

  24. #13
    Jo Dusepo, luthier Dusepo's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Quote Originally Posted by John Bertotti View Post
    Thanks. I saw an instrument I thought might be an iud that had some triples. I wondered what it was. Thanks
    A lute-bodied instrument with some tripled strings? The Turkish saz comes to mind...
    I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.

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    Registered User John Bertotti's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    I’ll google that thanks for the heads up. Have you built those also?
    My avatar is of my OldWave Oval A

    Creativity is just doing something wierd and finding out others like it.

  27. #15
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusepo View Post
    A lute-bodied instrument with some tripled strings? The Turkish saz comes to mind...
    The first course is often triple...not all of them!

  28. #16
    Jo Dusepo, luthier Dusepo's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Quote Originally Posted by John Bertotti View Post
    I’ll google that thanks for the heads up. Have you built those also?
    Nope, I've never built one. And yes, only the highest course is tripled.
    I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.

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  30. #17
    Jo Dusepo, luthier Dusepo's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Another one, this time with a cedar soundboard:




    Sound samples in the following videos:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLNkIatnt2o
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykUDCA_V_zs
    I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.

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  32. #18
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    I am looking forward to my Dusepo 5-course cittern/liuto moderno, maybe a... 2022 (?) Christmas present to myself. Your work is beautiful so it's worth the wait. But I am also impressed with your cultural knowledge of different styles: I hear a different sense of pitch and rhythm in some of your Middle Eastern music as contrasted with the Baroque mandolin. Of course the frets and tuning are part of that but I wonder about your musical training alongside your luthier work (Is there a word for "luthier-ism?"). I'm a retired choral director and always tried for different qualities of choral tone for different periods and styles of music. I had scholarly books and recordings as guides for this--what (and who) are your guides?
    jim

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  34. #19

    Default Re: My latest oud

    Jo, you're playing a lot of oud these days. Got the bug? I'm still looking for another ~61 cm oud. Meanwhile I got a new set of pegs, so at least I can keep my large oud running until I find one.

    Jim, can't speak for Jo but learning maqam is best done aurally - notational systems are at best a compromise for Western use and may provide an outline of the music, but lack the finer details of microtonality and the cultural context from which works are derived. Maqam tonality often varies much within the structure, as well as regional and practical variation. Recording and dissemination has been a terrific boon for learning about these aural traditions. Sites like Maqam World are a great place to start.

    Jordi Savall has produced a terrific body of work exploring relationships between Orient and Occident - I think Hesperion was a project basically dedicated so. The literature accompanying these works provides great insight into the foundations of the pieces.
    Randal Scott

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  36. #20
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Quote Originally Posted by catmandu2 View Post

    Jim, can't speak for Jo but learning maqam is best done aurally - notational systems are at best a compromise for Western use and may provide an outline of the music, but lack the finer details of microtonality and the cultural context from which works are derived. Maqam tonality often varies much within the structure, as well as regional and practical variation. Recording and dissemination has been a terrific boon for learning about these aural traditions. Sites like Maqam World are a great place to start.
    I totally agree. The notation systems for Arabic and Turkish (and Persian...but that's another thing) music do not make up for hearing the melodic phrases and the pitches of various notes.

    Now, once you know what the intervals and phrases sound like, then scores will let you remember how to play various pieces of music - but you need to know what actual pitch to use in any given melodic sequence.

  37. #21
    '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`' Jacob's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Abundance of educational material at Maqam World.

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  39. #22
    Jo Dusepo, luthier Dusepo's Avatar
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Imhoff View Post
    I am looking forward to my Dusepo 5-course cittern/liuto moderno, maybe a... 2022 (?) Christmas present to myself. Your work is beautiful so it's worth the wait. But I am also impressed with your cultural knowledge of different styles: I hear a different sense of pitch and rhythm in some of your Middle Eastern music as contrasted with the Baroque mandolin. Of course the frets and tuning are part of that but I wonder about your musical training alongside your luthier work (Is there a word for "luthier-ism?"). I'm a retired choral director and always tried for different qualities of choral tone for different periods and styles of music. I had scholarly books and recordings as guides for this--what (and who) are your guides?
    jim
    Nice to see you here!

    I'm a European so I'm a westerner, and grew up learning western music theory and classical guitar. I've been learning a lot of Persian music theory during the Covid times, known as the Dastagh system. I've also picked up a bit of the Maqam system mentioned by others, but that's more used in Arabic music (and a very similar system called Makam used in Turkish music).

    My main sources during this time have been:
    * The book 'The Dastgah Concept in Persian Music' by Hormoz Farhat
    * The radif of Mirza Abdollah (a collection of mainly non-rhythmic pieces which are used as a basis for a lot of Persian music, this is the most famous but there are also other 'radifs'.
    * Courses and lessons with Negar Bouban and Navid Goldrick.
    * Lots of other books of sheet music I've picked up along the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by catmandu2 View Post
    Jo, you're playing a lot of oud these days. Got the bug?
    Absolutely! I'd played oud before on and off, but as I said, during the Covid times (since the end of 2019) I've been taking it more seriously and properly studying it and making good progress (and most importantly, much enjoyment) with it.
    I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.

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  41. #23

    Default Re: My latest oud

    Yes and you're sounding good. I love oud. I used to listen to a bit santur or santoor whichever from that region.
    Randal Scott

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  43. #24

    Default Re: My latest oud

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Imhoff View Post
    I am looking forward to my Dusepo 5-course cittern/liuto moderno...
    BTW Jim or Jo - if convenient to throw us a pic of this I'd like to see. I've always had this lower-grade itch for the renaissance guitar (former classical guitarist) - I think I've seen these from Jo , but don't recall the cittern.. I love the feel of gut/synth string on my fingers.
    Randal Scott

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  45. #25
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    Default Re: My latest oud

    Quote Originally Posted by catmandu2 View Post
    BTW Jim or Jo - if convenient to throw us a pic of this I'd like to see. I've always had this lower-grade itch for the renaissance guitar (former classical guitarist) - I think I've seen these from Jo , but don't recall the cittern.. I love the feel of gut/synth string on my fingers.
    You'll have to wait a while to see my-liuto-cittern-to-be. Jo has a long line of orders ahead of mine and I respect her ethic of no cutting in line (or should I say queue?). But maybe Ms. Dusepo could post a recording of one of her 5-course long neck instruments? My teacher Fabio Giudice is already excited about getting me into Calace's liuto cantabile literature, but he'll have to wait too. I can't complain, I am very happy with my Gibson K4 even without that 5th course.
    jim

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