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Thread: Beginner Lessons philosophy/discussion

  1. #51
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginner Lessons philosophy/discussion

    The converse would be that all musicians should study classically and be corrected of each and every mistake from the outset … I’d be interested to know from classical teachers how many of their students continue with absolutely no bad habits, or even how many such teachers would advocate that a student quit because they don’t get everything quite right. After all, I was writing to a target audience not engaged in classical study and drawing from my own experience. I’ve never regretted having to return to fundamentals, or having to relearn ways of doing things. Worry and regret and fear of developing a problem are not the ways forward. I’m speaking to whom I imagine will learn to play some tunes, enjoy themselves, learn the best they can and devote themselves to a lifetime of improvement with no regrets. Not writing to someone who will never develop a bad habit.
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  3. #52

    Default Re: Beginner Lessons philosophy/discussion

    The pedagogy is a lifelong process. System of feedback and correction. The classical model is one such option. I don't understand what the point of contention is?

    Reminds me of one time during one of these discussions, someone was stuck on the concept of 'perfection.' I think people get hung up on terms, feelings, all that.

    If someone wants to play tunes, with 'sub-optimal' technic even, so what? I don't care. I'm merely pointing out other approaches in the realm of learning. Certainly not suggesting a 'classical' approach is for everyone.

    I do, however, usually get involved in a discussion when I think poor information is being presented, or if I can offer a demonstrable alternative.

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  5. #53
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginner Lessons philosophy/discussion

    Fair enough
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  7. #54

    Default Re: Beginner Lessons philosophy/discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by catmandu2 View Post
    pedagogy
    I had to look that one up!

  8. #55
    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginner Lessons philosophy/discussion

    Pedagogy, it's one of those taboo words.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedagogy

  9. #56
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginner Lessons philosophy/discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by catmandu2 View Post
    If someone wants to play tunes, with 'sub-optimal' technique even, so what? I don't care.
    Frankly, neither do I care - it's their own business if they wish to play mandolin and not really learn the instrument properly.

    However when a person makes a post asking about how to play the mandolin, we should as a group offer the best advice we can.

    What they do with that information is up to them.

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  11. #57
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginner Lessons philosophy/discussion

    I agree with that as well David. I don’t think a lackadaisical attitude or approach is the right way. Conversely, I think there is far too much emphasis and, yes, worry about having to correct problems in the future. That’s why I have a problem with the warnings often given about it. Most musicians realize that it is a lifelong pursuit and find that they have to make adjustments … often difficult ones … at various points in their musical career. Most return to the basics again and again. Many change fundamental things - pick grip, etc. and experiment with different styles. Lifelong pedagogy is correct. So while it is important to learn the fundamentals and eschew bad habits from the start, the reason for that is to play well and avoid injury. “Not having to relearn in the future” is not the issue, and not to be worried about. Having to continue learning and even to “relearn” and make corrections is part and parcel of the musical process and fear of it should not be instilled in newbies. That’s my position.
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  13. #58

    Default Re: Beginner Lessons philosophy/discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Estaley View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I've always wanted to pick up an instrument. All of my closest friends from elementary school to college have always been musicians but I've never played (i was the guy with the camera). Well after listening to Punch Brothers for a long time, I've decided the mandolin is the one I'm going to finally try.

    My philosophy is to get between 10-60 minutes a day. I'm keeping it loose because this is purely a hobby for me and I don't want to ruin it by trying too hard. However, that being said, I don't want to end up practicing 10-60 minutes a day with the WRONG technique.

    My thought process on learning is meet with a teacher once or twice a month to keep my grounded in my practice and moving in the right direction. But is it worth spending money on a really good teacher right out of the gate or maybe find a more casual teacher to teach me the basics and then switch to a "higher quality" teacher when I want to get more advanced?

    I'm thinking maybe I use YouTube tutorials for lessons and then after about a month I invest in some lessons. Thoughts on best beginner practices? Thanks!!
    Take a few lessons with Wayne Benson. It will give you great guidance and give you enough to work on for 6 months.

  14. #59
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginner Lessons philosophy/discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gunter View Post
    I Lifelong pedagogy is correct. So while it is important to learn the fundamentals and eschew bad habits from the start, the reason for that is to play well and avoid injury. “Not having to relearn in the future” is not the issue, and not to be worried about. Having to continue learning and even to “relearn” and make corrections is part and parcel of the musical process and fear of it should not be instilled in newbies. That’s my position.
    That's a good way of looking at it - learning music is a lifelong pursuit. One continues to learn and grow all the time.

  15. #60
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beginner Lessons philosophy/discussion

    Another way to look at it is that there are many, many variables involved in producing musical tones, and in developing technique - far more than most of us can competently learn in the beginning. In spite of the best efforts of the best teachers, most of us will still have to study, practice and maintain or correct technical problems throughout our musical lives. For that reason, and this is only IMHO, it seems insanity to tell a newbie to fear forming a bad habit because it may be difficult to correct in the future - as if that would be a terrible thing, to have to relearn something. A newbie should seek to learn good technique, “best practices” if you will, because it will aid them in making music and help them to avoid injury. And that with the understanding that they will need to continue to work on fundamentals and make corrections as necessary in the future if they want to continue to progress. For the majority of players, the idea that they will gain all the nuances of good technique from a good teacher and not have to relearn anything in the future seems a fallacy to me.

    None of this is to say that a person shouldn’t study best practices from jump. I still cringe when it’s said “be careful not to develop a bad habit that you will have to work to correct in the future” as if 1) it were possible for most humans not to develop a bad habit, and 2) correcting bad habits in the future is loathsome.
    WWW.THEAMATEURMANDOLINIST.COM
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