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Thread: the Lloyd Loar F5s: in the 1920s and today

  1. #1
    Registered User Nick Royal's Avatar
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    Default the Lloyd Loar F5s: in the 1920s and today

    I find myself wondering if Lloyd Loar had any idea that his new creation, the F5 mandolin would be such an amazing instrument today...played by John Reischman, David Grisman, Mike Marshall, Chris Thile, and now Andy Statman, plus many other players. He created a special instrument; Bill Monroe started playing one which is a part of the lore; and now they are so special.
    Last edited by Nick Royal; Jul-17-2021 at 9:00pm.

  2. #2

    Default Re: the Lloyd Loar F5s: in the 1920s and today

    One of the cool things about the mandolin is definitely the "lore of Loar". It's great to see instruments with a lot of history out there in capable hands.

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    Ursus Mandolinus Fretbear's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Lloyd Loar F5s: in the 1920s and today

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Royal View Post
    I find myself wondering if Lloyd Loar had any idea that his new creation, the F5 mandolin would be such an amazing instrument today...played by John Reischman, David Grisman, Mike Marshall, Chris Thile, and now Andy Statman, plus many other players. He created a special instrument; Bill Monroe started playing one which is a part of the lore; and now they are so special.
    That is one of Bluegrass's many gifts:
    That something that was not (and very easily could have never been) gathered around itself everything in exact perfect measure, new styles of playing on brilliantly designed musical instruments, to create an entirely new and unique musical style.
    But Amsterdam was always good for grieving
    And London never fails to leave me blue
    And Paris never was my kinda town
    So I walked around with the Ft. Worth Blues

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    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Lloyd Loar F5s: in the 1920s and today

    Like Leo Fender, Adolphe Sax, I think Loar would be amazed at bluegrass, at rock and roll (John Paul Jones owns a Loar), at jazz, and everything else. Great instruments are great instruments. I think he'd also be flattered at the copies, improvements and tributes...
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    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Lloyd Loar F5s: in the 1920s and today

    Well Lloyd got to see his superior instruments in use first hand at gigs, the music of the day was now a whole lot louder and toney! Loar had the freedom to play for Gibson as well right, so he was a promoter also. He got to see his and his teams work played by all the greats of the day-and we know an F-5 has slightly better projection and tone than a bowlback! There were others besides Big Mon actually before such as some classical players but the Great Jazz player Dave Appolon was using Loars, Ferns, Flowerpots etc. all the way to new F-5's in the 60's! So Dave was using F-5's for what 50 years by the 60's!

    Lloyd was shrewd, cocky at times, hated by some! He was just another person but highly intelligent! But I believe in his time he knew that the style 5's were special, and they were still being played at the time of his early death. I personally think he'd get a serious kick out of the main music "Loar F-5's are used for-Don't you?"

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    Default Re: the Lloyd Loar F5s: in the 1920s and today

    I have a very strong sense that LL knew he was responsible for something special in the F5 Master Model. He was an excellent musician, and a very bright guy. I also believe that he knew he was 'ahead of the curve', and that maybe his models were going to see greater appreciation in the coming years. I have had direct contact with a number of musicians pre- and post- Loar acquisition. Not all, but some, were already highly regarded for years of mando excellence. None that I know of have walked back their initial enthrallment with the F5 MM. In some cases I would say the Loar has stimulated them to a level they might not have reached without one. Is it the old wood? the provenance of previous owners? the size/shape of the f-holes? the contours of the top and back? Likely it is a combination of many things, most of them not amenable to non-destructive testing. All we can do is enjoy them, in the hands of the best players.

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    Mandol'Aisne Daniel Nestlerode's Avatar
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    Default Re: the Lloyd Loar F5s: in the 1920s and today

    Musical instruments, outside of furniture sized pieces - and with a few exceptions, were generally considered objects that would wear out and get replaced. Guitars, mandolins, and banjos especially were considered portable, cheap, and sometimes disposable.

    I think Loar knew he was on to a good design and had hopes for a successful run. But as has often been noted, the mandolin was losing favor in 1922. A couple of cultural things were taking place that changed the way people entertained themselves. First the War and the Spanish Flu pandemic had ended, booze -though illegal- was cheap, and celebration was difficult temptaion to avoid. Second, the people of the US were moving in droves to cities to find work, entertainment, and anonymity. In that environment, Jazz seemed a better fit than the light classical music of mandolin orchestras: horns, not strings.

    Other innovations would drive more nails into the mandolin's coffin. Passive entertainments like movies and radio would bloom in the later 1920s, and phonographs would become more widely adopted. By the later 1920s millions of people didn't have to play music to hear it.

    By the 1930s, thhe mandolin was pushed off to the edges of the culture, places where innovations didn't come so fast and electricity was less available. Bill and Charlie Monroe came from such a place, and it's just our good luck that they loved making music on those instruments. Bill became an innovator and famous largely because of the radio.

    Radios were cheap enough for most people to buy, and when the Rural Electrification Administration started making inroads to remote places, radios brought music into people's homes. The most popular musical act in America in the 1930s was the Carter Family, because most people felt left behind by the pace of change and the growth of industry (and the Carters were darn good).

    Monroe's success and longevity made the mandolin a more popular instrument by the 1950s. But good ones were hard to find. The Loar era F5s were good instruments and a bit expensive for the era in which they were built. So people who bought them new, tended to take some care of them (unlike Martin guitars before Martin adopted steel strings). Monroe found one and bought it.

    The sound of the F5 became the sound of Bluegrass, and more people wanted that sound. So more Loar F5s were unearthed and got picked up by musicians.

    Given the fall and rise of the mandolin, as well as Loar's own efforts at musical instrument design after leaving Gibson, I doubt he had any idea that the F5 would become a benchmark for the sound and performance of the mandolin in America.

    [Sometimes my MA in History comes in handy.]
    Daniel

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    Default Re: the Lloyd Loar F5s: in the 1920s and today

    Daniel, great post. Many people who have come to the mandolin in the last 10-20 years are largely unaware of this history and must assume there were always lots of mandolin choices in music stores.
    There are parallels to the Les Paul guitar. After introducing it in '52 by '60 it was obvious that Fender was winning the electric battle so Gibson discontinued the LP in favor of the SG just in time for Bloomfield, Clapton, Beck, Green etc. to popularize it again. This time Gibson was quicker to respond but once again didn't do it right when they re-introduced it, making the older models more desirable and collectible.

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    Default Re: the Lloyd Loar F5s: in the 1920s and today

    Tremendous summary Daniel!

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