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Thread: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

  1. #1
    Registered User bob_mc's Avatar
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    Default Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Mr. Cranky's musicality has remained a touchstone for my guitar and mandolin playing for decades, I stumbled upon this today. I had it mostly right!

    Skip to 10:35


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    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Wow! Very cool to hear this. As I think I've mentioned once or twice, this is the first instance of mandolin on a rock record I ever heard. Not "Fat Man," not "Rag Mama Rag," this right here. Good to hear it without all that caterwauling and banging around from the other galoots on this record - so distracting. This is the real deal.

    Mr. Cranky? Is that a thing? News to me.
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    Registered User bob_mc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    "Mr. Cranky" is a something I read years ago (maybe in GP?) it stuck in my mind. I love his playing completely and thoroughly, no disrespect intended.

    Is "Fat Man" the little Feat tune?

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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    "Fat Man" by Jethro Tull, not "Fat Man In The Bathtub." Little Feat is one of my favorite bands, but their mandolin content is low. And later.

    I didn't think any disrespect or disparagement was intended regarding the wry Mr. Cooder. I'd just never seen that before.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Love me some Ry Cooder but across the room my wife said "who is that person singing almost as bad as Bob Dylan"? I found it hard to listen to as well, out of context.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    I did read an interview with him a few years later where he was certainly a bit cranky about the Stones' blatantly lifting his open G electric guitar stylings for the rock version of Honky Tonk Women.
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Quote Originally Posted by Bren View Post
    I did read an interview with him a few years later where he was certainly a bit cranky about the Stones' blatantly lifting his open G electric guitar stylings for the rock version of Honky Tonk Women.
    It wasn't just lifting his style, right? Didn't they invite him to an audition for the band, and then secretly tape him while he was playing around waiting for Keith Richards to show up? Later, they told him 'Not interested', and then Richards listened to the tapes and copied his style. Anyway, that's the story I heard.

    IMHO: Ry Cooder >>>>>>>>>>>> the Rolling Stones

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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Dawg interviewed Ry and the interview appeared in a MWN issue in 1979. Here's the salient part relative to this thread.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    I remember reading somewhere that there was talk of Ry joining the Rolling Stones. This was around the time Brian Jones was losing it and finally lost it. Mick Taylor was also in the running, and the Glimmer Twins eventually went with him. He's on two tracks on "Let It Bleed," Ry's on one, and Brian barely at all - two minor instruments on two tracks. I don't know how accurate these characterizations are of how Keith adopted the G tuning - ripping off someone who might become a band mate seems unseemly, to say the least - but it did become his style ever since, far beyond just for "Honky Tonk Women."
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Man, that is one of my favorite Stones songs from that era. Speaking of tunings, is Ry playing his mandolin in standard tuning on that track? It sounds like it to me but I’m no expert on blues mandolin.

    As far as Keith copying Ry’s guitar tuning, well, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and everyone borrows from everyone. But if that story is true, it was kind of crappy of them.
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ostrander View Post
    As far as Keith copying Ry’s guitar tuning, well, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and everyone borrows from everyone. But if that story is true, it was kind of crappy of them.
    Open G tuning is not exactly so unique as to be copyrightable. Even if you do remove the low E string.
    "The paths of experimentation twist and turn through mountains of miscalculations, and often lose themselves in error and darkness!"
    --Leslie Daniel, "The Brain That Wouldn't Die."

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    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    I remember reading somewhere that there was talk of Ry joining the Rolling Stones. This was around the time Brian Jones was losing it and finally lost it. Mick Taylor was also in the running, and the Glimmer Twins eventually went with him. He's on two tracks on "Let It Bleed," Ry's on one, and Brian barely at all - two minor instruments on two tracks. I don't know how accurate these characterizations are of how Keith adopted the G tuning - ripping off someone who might become a band mate seems unseemly, to say the least - but it did become his style ever since, far beyond just for "Honky Tonk Women."

    There's the famous story where Brian Jones walks in late (again), listens to the track, says 'This is great. What can I play?' and Mick Jagger sneers back 'Yes, Brian, what CAN you play?'
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis View Post
    There's the famous story where Brian Jones walks in late (again), listens to the track, says 'This is great. What can I play?' and Mick Jagger sneers back 'Yes, Brian, what CAN you play?'
    For starters:

    Brass
    Oboe
    Organ
    Dulcimer
    Mellotron
    Slide guitar
    Harmonica
    Recorder
    Sitar
    Marimba
    Saxophone
    Percussions
    Keyboard.

    Mick, on the other hand, could play a bit of guitar and some harmonica.
    "The paths of experimentation twist and turn through mountains of miscalculations, and often lose themselves in error and darkness!"
    --Leslie Daniel, "The Brain That Wouldn't Die."

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    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Quote Originally Posted by jaycat View Post
    For starters:

    Brass
    Oboe
    Organ
    Dulcimer
    Mellotron
    Slide guitar
    Harmonica
    Recorder
    Sitar
    Marimba
    Saxophone
    Percussions
    Keyboard.

    Mick, on the other hand, could play a bit of guitar and some harmonica.
    This is true. But Mick could write songs... (Brian wrote 'She's a Rainbow' as far as I can tell, and not much else - happy to be corrected).
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Quote Originally Posted by jaycat View Post
    For starters:
    You missed congas on "Midnight Rambler" and autoharp on "You Got the Silver" - his last two contributions to The Rolling Stones' recording history, on "Let It Bleed." Not exactly crucial input.

    The point is by this time Brian Jones was deeply into drug abuse and wasn't even showing up at the studio, let alone being able to play what he could play. So Mick's question was valid in this context - what could he play at the time, not what had he played over time. He was fired during the recording sessions, and died soon after.

    Well, this took a dark turn ... through the past, darkly ...
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    This has been around for awhile now......in this part of the interview Richards gives credit to Cooder. Then continue watching if you really want to cringe.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AXETu9wnCE

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    Registered User lowtone2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ostrander View Post
    Man, that is one of my favorite Stones songs from that era. Speaking of tunings, is Ry playing his mandolin in standard tuning on that track? It sounds like it to me but I’m no expert on blues mandolin.

    As far as Keith copying Ry’s guitar tuning, well, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and everyone borrows from everyone. But if that story is true, it was kind of crappy of them.
    They are playing in Bb, so you would think not, but I believe he was playing standard tuning. The thing is mostly tremolo double stops with a couple of fills, obviously, and it fits nicely on the instrument in standard. One of the fills goes to the V chord, the F, and it sounds right ending up as a double stop with f on the E string and an open A.

    I can't hear it very well, even isolated, but it sounds right if you play a lot of the Bb double stops on the E and A string, 6th and 5th fret, Moving down to the 4th fret to change to a flat 7 chord. Etc...

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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Etc. Especially etc. Looks like a good analysis. I've never been terribly good at sussing out tunings or particular fingerings by ear. But logic dictates that if this was a spur-of-the-moment overdub that Ry did in one take, as he says, he wouldn't have been messing around with alternate tunings. I doubt anyone would have had the patience for that.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    Etc. Especially etc.
    .

    It's not complicated, but it is hard to hear, so it would be a chore to transcribe the whole part, while it is easy enough to play something that sounds good.

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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    I found it very interesting to listen to. I've done quite a bit of recording and am very used to listening to tracks isolated or limited to just a few tracks and then to the whole mix, and A/B-ing. The Rolling Stones are raw, it's their style and some people love that style while other listeners (and players who also listen) enjoy a more polished sound. Ry's mandolin part fits the song well, I think.

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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    Just heard this awesome Ry Cooder produced Mavis Staples song on the radio, with Ry playing mando and slide guitar, and his son Joachim on drums:


    There’s a 1970s oval hole Gilchrist F mandolin made for Ry Cooder for sale at Carter Vintage right now, a cool piece of history. He picked it up on a tour of Australia.
    - Pete

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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    I love that solo, but that "isolated" track isn't that much better than just listening to it on Amazing Slowdowner. A lot of bleed from other channels for the vocal/mandolin track.

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  37. #23
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    I think that track was was also my first intro to mandolin. I’m not even sure if I knew it was a mandolin back then, but it’s one of my favorite Stones tunes, albeit a cover tune.

    As far as Stones albums go, Gimme Shelter, Beggars Banquet, and Sticky Fingers represent their most creative period, if you ask me. Those are my favorite albums. Oh, and Exile on Main Street is good too. Most critics say Exile is their best work, but I rank the other three higher. Just my opinion.
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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    I assume you mean "Let It Bleed," the album which contains "Gimme Shelter." I'm with you on those three, and can't settle on which one is my favorite - it varies from time to time. I also have a fondness for "Between The Buttons," which I've always seen as their rough equivalent to The Beatles' "Rubber Soul." Lots of good songs on it, and it was a step up in their sound, but it's not on the same level as those three.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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    Default Re: Ry Cooder isolated mandolin Love in Vain

    No mando- Let It Bleed is definitely my favorite with Beggar's Banquet a close second, although i like them all up to Exile. i like every tune on Let it Bleed. Richards played a great bassline on Live With Me, and after hearing Bobby Keys on that record, he's recognizable on any other. Mick Talylor was on a couple of cuts on the album , and I think he must have inspired Richard to do great (for R&R) work.


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