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Thread: Experiences with ArtistWorks

  1. #1
    Registered User mcgroup53's Avatar
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    Default Experiences with ArtistWorks

    Hey all, I'm writing a piece for Bluegrass Unlimited about ArtistWorks as part of BU's upcoming Learn To Play issue. I have comments from the founder and Mike Marshall, but I'd love to get some independent opinions and observations from Cafe members who have experience - good or bad - with AW. Not just mandolin, any bluegrass course you've taken.

    Please send comments directly to me at mccarty53@gmail.com.

    Thanks in advance,

    David McCarty

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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    I love their courses and especially the bluegrass courses. I've been taking Tony Trischka banjo, Bryan Sutton guitar (fantastic), Michael Daves bluegrass vocals, and Mike Marshall mandolin courses as well as the Keith Wyatt blues guitar (just started) and Guthrie Trapp electric country guitar courses. I really love the way they lay out their lessons and also the video exchange that you can do with the artist. Everyone else can see your video exchange but they also see the response you get from the teacher which can be helpful to other people that may be dealing with the same issues or want to learn the same kinds of things you do. The teachers/artists are tops in their music and they know how to teach and spot things you are doing right and doing wrong so they can address any problems you have. They usually have offers at different times for 20% to 50% off(the 50% off is right around Christmas time for about a week or two) of the year courses. I've been taking a few of them off and mostly on for the past 8 or 9 years. Started with Tony's banjo then went on to Bryan's guitar. I started the mandolin a year ago and the vocals about 6 months ago. For me they all tie in together well.

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  4. #3
    Play on FredK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    I subscribed to Mike Marshall's course on AW twice - once when I first started playing mandolin in 2017 and again in 2019 when they ran a deep-discount special. In between times, I subscribed to Sharon Gilchrist's course on Peghead Nation. Both are great but, focusing on Artist Works for your purposes, I felt like there was a lot of bang for the buck. Not only do you get the mandolin course; there's also access to a theory course and beginner guitar course. Music theory was a good refresher for me since I'd been out of music for quite a while up to then.

    I found the courses very organized and well thought out. Video and audio is set up well and consistent. They thought through the camera angles to aid viewing which is something you don't always get on other's sites. The lessons are in bite-sized chunks with essential talk on technique and theory and plenty of play time. I appreciate that the fluff talk you get from other sites was not a part of their program. Mike stayed on topic and relevant. Also, there were plenty of standard notation PDFs (if you want them) and varied play tracks for each lesson. One complaint I do have about the tracks is that they were too short (for me). However, you can go to other tabs on Artist Works and find longer tracks to play along with if you search.

    One of the problems I had with the site is that it is too busy. On the mandolin page itself, there are a lot of tabs for different topics. Once you find a tab, then you have to scroll through to find what you're looking for. It's all there, you just have to dig for it. I found some work-arounds but you really have to play around on the site to figure some of them out. Time would be better spent playing.

    Lastly, there's the opportunity to submit videos to the teacher for critique. Turn time for a response/critique from the teacher varies depending on their schedule (my assumption). For me, I'd be well on to something else when I received the response so I did not take advantage of this feature except when I first started. Mike did take the time to provide praise when applicable along with suggestions on improvement. It's not a canned response. Rather, it's obvious he's listened to the video and cares about the student's progress. You also have the opportunity to watch other's videos and the teacher's critique. There's so many that you could burn a lot of time watching them.

    Would I recommend Artist Works? Yes, I would. Is it the best out there? That's up for debate but it was good for me. It's well thought out and provides some benefits that you don't get with some other sites. However, I've learned a lot from other sites and from just watching someone I admire and learning from their style and technique. Will I use AW again? I would if I felt the need. Overall, AW is a good choice for someone looking for quality instruction from well-known, experienced players. YMMV
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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    Dave, I've been in Artist Works just a few weeks, but I'll give you some thoughts.

    In the last couple of years I've done online lessons with ModernMusicMasters.com (Paul Franklin, pedal steel), Travis Toy's travis-toy-tutorials.teachable.com (pedal steel), and Justin Branum's masterfiddle.com (fiddle, mando, guitar). I signed up for Darol Anger (fiddle) and Mike Marshall (mando) at Artist Works in December '20.

    I can say that all of these give you 24/7 access to a huge amount of lesson content, and some mechanism for direct access to your teacher. AW uses student/teacher video exchanges. Teachers are obviously great musicians but they know how to teach pretty much everything about their style, repertoire and technique. All of them provide some one on one access to the teacher. So far I haven't engaged with Darol and Mike with the video exchange Artist Works uses. I will soon.

    What I can say about Artist works is:
    - The price is more or less in line with the other sites. It appears they have a sale going now.
    - There is a lot of content. Most of the lessons have a PDF with music, and audio tracks to practice with at different speeds.
    - The videos are mostly short and to the point. No multiple cameras, but they get the job done.
    - There are lessons for beginner through very advanced players. Darol has a huge section that takes a rank beginner up to the intermediate level. Very well thought out.
    - I suppose the coolest feature with Artist Works is the video exchange that gets you personal feedback from these great musician/teachers. By now, there are lots of video exchanges on most of the lessons and these are accessible to all students as really useful, additional lessons on top of the main lesson.
    - Each teacher has a section for additional material that can be added by students or teachers. Mike Marshall's section has a huge amount of extra music PDFs.
    - It's pretty easy to navigate the site. There is a little more jumping between subsections on Artist Works than the other sites I subscribe to.
    - There is a nice video looping feature. It's easy to use but not as easy as a stand alone app like Transcribe or Amazing Slow Downer.
    - Both have lots of different styles (bluegrass, jazz, dawg, choro, classical, blues, Christmas, etc) with a ton of lessons for each.

    Summarizing, my experience has been good and I'd recommend Artist works.
    Last edited by Tom Dillon; Jan-31-2021 at 9:49pm.

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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    I am currently enrolled in Mike Marshall's mandolin course. Mike is a good teacher and I like that he has clear progression from beginning to advanced. In the end (regardless of which course someone takes) it is all about the time and effort people put into learning the material. I have noticed that the people who stick to it and regularly send in videos make good advances over time.

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  10. #6
    Registered User mbruno's Avatar
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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    Mike gave me my first improtu mandolin lesson at Greyfox back in 2005 while he was eating an apple. I didn't know who he was at the time - just seemed like a nice guy so I asked him to show me something and he did.

    I used AW for a little while a few years back. Mostly I started because I wanted to get more ideas for some standard fiddle tunes so I could have more fun at the jams at festivals etc. Overall, I thought it was pretty good overall and didn't have any issues with the service - though I did find some of the other users to be a little rude if you tried a tune that they felt was played to death on the service. I recall getting several comments from others on my take of a standard (I believe Salt Creek but could be wrong) - basically saying that I shouldn't be wasting anyone's time with tunes that have been that played. I actually unsubscribed in large part because of people like that.
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  12. #7
    Registered User Drew Egerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    Quote Originally Posted by mbruno View Post
    Overall, I thought it was pretty good overall and didn't have any issues with the service - though I did find some of the other users to be a little rude if you tried a tune that they felt was played to death on the service. I recall getting several comments from others on my take of a standard (I believe Salt Creek but could be wrong) - basically saying that I shouldn't be wasting anyone's time with tunes that have been that played. I actually unsubscribed in large part because of people like that.
    Wow. I've been in Mike's AW class for about 4 years and have never seen a comment like that once. Everyone I have interacted with has been super encouraging of each other regardless of style or level. I know that there are probably a thousand Old Joe Clark VEs and they just keep coming. Certainly you can watch 5 or 10 of them and get the summary, but never seen anyone given a hard time for sending it in anyway. If that was your main issue I'd definitely encourage you to try it out again.
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    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    Wow, I would think they could just not watch if they didn't want to see another Old Joe Clark. That said, I joined at Christmas time, and in the first video I got from Mike, he asked me to send a video of me playing .... Old Joe Clark.... so it will be 1,001 soon

    In a way, I kind of wish my videos weren't available for everyone, but I guess in another way, I don't really care.

    That said, I really like the format. It's the perfect combination of recorded lessons you can work on at your own pace, and personal feedback from Mike M. Before I signed up, I was doing self study. I felt like I needed more direction, more of a defined curriculum. I haven't given up on some of my other resources, but I am happy I signed up. And the price was very good during the 50% off sale.

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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    Yeah, I've been doing quite a few courses through Artistworks and I've never noticed a comment other than encouraging from other people on the site. I find other peoples VE's very helpful. There have been a few that are interested in the same things I am, playing the same songs, etc. and I just find it helpful to get the added instruction regarding the many topics that can occur.

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    Registered User John Flynn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    I took courses from ArtistWorks years ago. I mostly took mandolin with Mike M., but also tried harmonica with Howard Levy for a short time. I thought it was a pretty good arrangement. This was probably just me, but I found videoing myself nerve wracking. That was the worst part of it, just the whole "cinematography" aspect of it. Also, I tended to choke up in front of the camera in ways I rarely did in a jam or band situation.

    My main pushback is that the instructors decide the syllabus. I wanted to branch out into other music than what was being taught, but the format didn't seem to facilitate that. Also, this might seem like a small thing but Mike didn't like that I had a swivel chair at my desk and told me to get a solid chair. I am sure he was right, but that didn't work for me. I explained that to him, but he kept bringing it up anyway like we had never discussed it. But overall, it was a very worthwhile experience. It is very convenient and cost effective, but I would rather have a good face-to-face instructor.

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  20. #11
    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    I've only made one video. It was indeed nerve-wracking, and I could hardly play. I'm expecting (hoping) that it will get easier, though, as I see people posting videos of themselves on this site all the time.

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  22. #12
    Registered User Drew Egerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    Quote Originally Posted by John Flynn View Post
    My main pushback is that the instructors decide the syllabus. I wanted to branch out into other music than what was being taught, but the format didn't seem to facilitate that.
    There are places to submit a video now on any topic or tune you'd like and there have been thousands done in all kinds of styles. Classical, choro, jazz, Dawg, etc. There is also a huge section of additional materials where Mike has posted charts to those additional tunes.
    Mike is definitely big on the posture topic. Some people adopt his suggestions and some don't for sure.

    Sue, it definitely does get easier the more you do the videos. The big revelation to me was that just like in real life, there will be better players than you and usually there will be more beginner ones too. There are some just about pro level guys on there sometimes and then there are people that are just learning how to tune up.
    I usually do a pretty good handful of takes before I am happy enough with something to send it in. Having the recording going can definitely raise the nerves no matter what your level is. Think of it this way, you can always delete it and try again!
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    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    Thanks, Drew, for the encouragement. Luckily, I have Premiere Elements and can cut and paste . Though I think the idea is not to chop out all the mistakes, but to let him see those too, so he can help.

    I will also say that Mike was very reassuring and mellow in his response, mixing positives with suggestions for improvement. My nephew, who is a high school music director, calls this technique a "complement sandwich"

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    Distressed Model John Ritchhart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    My favorite Mike response to one of my videos started with "So, we're friends right?" I had sent in a few videos and Mike and I were on the same wavelength with each other. I am lucky to have sat in several classrooms with Mike as well. He is a wonderful teacher. I believe in critical feedback in order to progress. Many instructors I think are hesitant to say what they really think for fear of alienating or discouraging students and I completely understand that. I told Mike early on that I wanted direct and honest feedback for my money. He's willing to do that if your ego can handle it. He's been really good for me. As someone said earlier, you get back what you put into it.
    We few, we happy few.

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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    I am hurt. *sniff sniff* haha

    The last time (in a different mag) I got a nice write up for my stuff they spelled my name wrong and got the website wrong.

    Carry on. Love BU!

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  30. #16

    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    I have been studying with Mike Marshall at AW for the last 8 years and with Catarina Lichtenberg for 3 years. I have not taken lessons on other sites and have no plans. My experience has been nothing but outstanding. The amount of information available on the two sites is overwhelming ( in a great way ), there is everything you could want and more. The atmosphere is cordial between students - I have never read or heard a mean or non-supportive comment, I don't think anyone would stand for that.
    The caliber of instruction is awesome. And in regards to what can be and is thrown in terms of different styles and genres on Mike's lap is limitless and he goes for all of it. I haven't yet seen him stumped or displeased with even the most far out submissions. He digs the craziest stuff and actively encourages us all to "take him out of his comfort zone". Catarina's site is more focused on classical styles but also here the well runs really deep. the format of the video submissions is excellent and there are so many of them to watch that I would imagine that there are litearally thousands of hours of teaching at your disposal. I learn from all of them whether beginner or most advanced. There are "gems" hidden everywhere. Obviously I would totally recommend the site. At the same time you will learn as much as you apply yourself - but I would imagine that's the same everywhere. Stefan

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  32. #17

    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    I started with Mike Marshall's course about a year ago.

    Per what others have said on this thread, its pretty incredible that for a small chunk of change, Mike will watch videos of you butchering fiddle tunes and reply with very positive feedback. Yes, it is nerve wracking filming yourself, but its actually a really good trick to get yourself to be honest about how you are playing.

    That said, you definitely need to keep in mind how the site works. The video exchange really isn't a substitute for a one on one (or one on zoom) lesson and you are not going to get the same sort of back and forth. Its generally been about two weeks to get a reply to a video - adding up to (for me) about a month between them (when I'm good about it). You really need to start working on something else while you are waiting, especially as the video exchange platform encourages briefer, one-song-at-a-time kind of pacing. Mike is great about zeroing in on the details and working on your form. He does have a ton of students, however, and as another posted noted, if you've got some sort of ergonomic issue, you might get the same comment a few times. As a complaint, that's really only a limit of site's format and its popularity...like I said, it's kind of amazing to have Mike asking for a video of your sloppy muffled chop chords so he can help you fix them!

    I'm going to stick with Artist Works for now, but its part of a broader practice/learning regime.

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    Default Re: Experiences with ArtistWorks

    I can play the mandolin in a fashion. I had played the fiddle on and off for many years. But, I was not very good even to my ears. I decided to begin again at it. I started with Daryl Anger on Artist Works. I was very studious with it and worked at the things he told me. In about a year I was good enough to play with a band. Still not great but vastly improved. I stayed with it until I was called back to mandolin duty. I think it is a great way to learn from masters who really know your name and who you are.

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